Originally Posted by __jb

OMG... A Fed and the Grammar Police...

You moonlighting, sf?

Yep, that's eactly what it looked like.

Shhhhhhh don't tell anyone but I used to get in trouble all the time for it myself

Sometimes I read your posts a couple of times before I reply. I appreciate your detail.

Originally Posted by Boomer

Yes there are actually quite a few pistol shooting positions. You can do Isosceles or Weaver in an unsupported or supported manner. Then theres one handed positions, where you body will be almost if not perpendicular to your target or your body could face or be at an offset angle also. Kneeling supported/unsupported one or two handed. And there are a bunch of prone and laying positions.

At some point, I would like to shoot some one handed, so that I could hold a flashlight with the other. I'll probably hold off on that until I get better at shooting with two hands.

Originally Posted by Boomer

The Kick is Recoil. It falls in line with Newtons' - For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Recoil is the opposing force created from the bullet leaving the barrel. Muzzle flip, muzzle rise or muzzle jump, is the upwards jump of the front end of the weapon, it has to do with bore axis. The shorter the bore axis distance, the less muzzle flip there will be as compared to a pistol with a longer bore axis. A good example of this would be to shoot a couple of mags through your 17 and then shoot a service length Springfield Armory XD9. The bore axis is longer on the XD and when I have shot that combo, except I was shooting a GLOCK 22 and service length XD40, I did notice a little more flip from the XD. The flip happens because your hand is lower than the center line of the bore, thus when you fire a round, the weapon wants to move straight back, but since you are holding the weapon below the center line of the barrel, the resulting action is for the gun to move back and up. Keeping a stiff wrist helps to quell the flip action.

Good explanation... What happens to me is that the gun and my hand rise when I shoot. I think I keep my wrist tight... maybe not on the shot that jammed... but, most times the gun and my arm seem to pivit up from my shoulder.

Originally Posted by Boomer

This is where the term "Limp Wristing" comes in for GLOCKs. Because of their light weight, polymer frame design, and the blocky heavy weight slide, if you dont keep you wrist stiff enough during a shot, the force of the recoil flips your hand up so quickly and violently, the slide is unable to move through its entire cycle of motion. When this happens, your hand is moving up so fast, it is actually working to close the pistols action, not letting the slide travel all the way back causing FTF or FTE to occur. Like your Stove Pipe jam.

Might help to take a video while I'm shooting... so I could see what I am doing...

Originally Posted by Boomer

You could kinda compare it to an AR-15 platform weapon. Eugene Stoner designed the rifle so that the bore, recoil assembly and stock were in a straight line. Even though most of the stock is below the bore axis, when you shoulder the weapon, it will sit as close to center line of the bore as possible. This design was made so as to lessen muzzle rise, thats why 5.56/.223 M-16/AR-15 weapons dont jump as much when fired.

As far as GLOCK trigger pull, I have set and slowly pulled it just to get an idea of what it feels like. I have equated it down to 3 parts. First is the slack take up. Second is the tooth on the trigger bar depressing the safety plunger, and Third is the combination reward/downward motion force of the trigger bar applying pressure to the striker and the trigger bar being moved down by the connector.

I can feel two different parts, but not three. I suspect I'm just not that sophisticated yet.

Does it hurt a Glock to dry fire it? I've heard some people say yes and some say no?

Originally Posted by Boomer

For trigger control, just keep at a steady rate, moving your finger in a rearward pulling motion. Apply a steady increasing force to the trigger as its pressure increases, dont speed up, cause that can lead to trigger jerk which you dont want to get caught in. Keep a nice steady slow pulling pace, if your pull slows a little its OK. Just remember, take you time, go slow, even take in a couple breaths between shots until you get better.

I know that practice will help. I just don't want to practice bad shooting characteristics.

Originally Posted by Boomer

Im glad to provide any advice. As I have said before, Id rather help any noob(not that you are one), regardless of their skill level, so that a shooter can have a good base of tools to learn from and become able and to know what they are doing, rather than just out there flailing around(not that you do). I can see that you are on the right track, and I hope that you keep on truckin'. Good luck, you will get there in time. Happy Shootin! Boomer.

No one wants to be called a noob, but I am very new to shooting pistols... plus there is a quantum leap between the skills you all have compared to mine... so it fits... I don't mind... I appreciate all your help... I just want to shoot a little better.

I thought it might be useful/helpful to post pictures of a couple of my targets from shooting Friday...

These two targets are on the 7 yard range. The first (blue) target was shooting the Winchester White Box 115gr ammo. The second target is shooting the Federal 115gr ammo. It seems like I got a little tighter on the second target, but that might have been because I shot more by then. Most shots were in the left side of the target for some reason.


Here's the target from the 12 yard range. My shots are less accurate, but still mostly occupy the left side of the target. I made a concious effort to move to the right, but still seemed to shoot to the left. A few shots hit on the right side, but not many.


Not great shooting, but if it were a person, most of them would have hit... These targets are 14 inches square...

My Glock is cleaned up and ready to go again!

I put 250 rounds through my new G17 Gen4 today. Here is the ammo I used(all 115 gr ammo):
100 rounds Winchester (white box)
50 rounds American Eagle
50 rounds Remington UMC
50 rounds Federal (cheapest at walmart)

I also used a glockmeister Gen4 replacement recoil spring(stock weight). Flawless operation. No significant difference in recoil when using the stock recoil spring

Looks like you have all the ammo covered!

Good shooting... Did you ever try the Glock 02 replacement spring?

Originally Posted by Boomer

Awesome jb, glad to hear you got to go out and run some rounds through your 17. That vertical jam is commonly called a stove pipe and you might have just limp wristed it on that shot that jammed. Firing the fail to feed round is OK as long as it doesn't have any big dents in it and dont shoot it if the bullet is shitting crooked or jammed in the case in the case. Scratches wont hurt either. Also, just make sure its clean before you stick it back in. Sounds like you are doing good with it, grats on your new shooter.

Never fire a round where the bullet is "shitting crooked" or you could get in some serious stuff. Maybe even with the grammar cops. Awesome thread!

I have used the stock 02 recoil spring. Put 250 rounds of similar ammo down range with flawless operation. I posted this previosly but I think the post was lost when the forum went down a few days ago.

I have a gen 4 G17. I have only put 250 rounds through my new Glock and I am new to both handguns and Glocks in particular. After buying my gun, I was concerned with internet posts regarding the gen 4's FTF and FTE, to the point I was considering swapping to a gen 3 G17 instead of accepting the new version even though I liked the fit better.
I have fired 4 different types of ammo, I've had my wife fire the gun (first handgun fires ever) and I have not been able to get my G17 to fail.... Until today. Today I took my nephew out and he couldn't fire more than a round or two before it jammed! He is also new to handguns. I couldn't believe it! No matter what ammo, he just couldn't get it to fire cleanly...
I am a big guy, 6'8" 255 ex pro athlete, and my wife is a fitness buff. Neither of us have had a problem, but my nephew is 6'0" and 130 soaking wet and it played up every clip for him. There is a lesson here somewhere, but I'm too new to this to understand what it is... I've read about limp wristing, and I'm sure that was the issue with my nephew. I had him harden up his grip and problem solved!

"Limp wristing" will do that, and not only with Glocks.

Too right! I was shocked when it first happened... but try as I might, I couldn't get it to do it to me. But poor Andy, my nephew, just couldn't make it not... not until I explained what I thought was the issue, then he could run a full magazine with no problems. By the way, my gen 4 has the "original" recoil spring, not the one marked "02".