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  1. #1
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    165 vs 180 grain .40 cal rounds for a Glock 23


    I just bought my first gun. And I was wondering if I could get some opinions on what you guys think of 165 grain .40cal rounds versus the 180 grain. Does the gun cycle faster. I one better than the other in terms of home defense. Any advice is welcome.
    Find a gun you like, practice with it, treat it like your baby, and you will be a good shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCreasy View Post
    I just bought my first gun. And I was wondering if I could get some opinions on what you guys think of 165 grain .40cal rounds versus the 180 grain. Does the gun cycle faster. I one better than the other in terms of home defense. Any advice is welcome.
    John;

    Congratulations on the purchase of your first gun, it sounds like you are off to a good start with a G23.

    For Home Defense purposes I would concentrate on the bullet nose design rather than bullet weight, and in that case I would choose a high quality Hollow Point. There are others on the forum who will probably respond to this post with good advice about which Hollow Point to use. For Home Defense I use my G17 (9mm) carrying 124-grain Jacketed Hollow Point ammunition.

    I use 180-grain Winchester "White Box" (also known as "WWB") Q4238 full metal jacket .40 Smith & Wesson ammunition for USPSA competition shooting. It has a little less velocity than their 165-grain ammunition (marked "USA40SW"), which I find to be a little "snappy" and uncomfortable to shoot.

    We commonly use a term called "Power Factor" to describe basic ammunition power. The formula for Power Factor is W x V/1,000, where W is the bullet weight in grains, and V is muzzle velocity in feet per second. That gives us a number that we can use to compare the recoil energy generated by the ammunition as well as a rough idea of its hitting power.

    The 180-grain ammo I mentioned has a velocity of 1,020 FPS, for a Power Factor of 183.6. The 165-grain ammo has a velocity of 1,060 FPS for a power factor of 174.9. Even though the 180-grain I prefer has a higher Power Factor, it feels better to me in my gun (a G35), which has a compensator.

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 06-09-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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  3. #3
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    For defense in the .40 S&W round I went with the Federal HST 165 grain hollow point. It has proven weight retention of over 99% and expands to double it's size in a consistant star shape. This specific round meets and exceeds every one of the ballistic tests required by government agencies. For a complete explaination and to see the tests performed go to this link:

    LE - Wound Ballistic Videos

    click on pistol test. Also for a statistical comparison go here and you can compare 155, 165, and 180 grain:

    LE - Tactical HST
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCreasy View Post
    I just bought my first gun. And I was wondering if I could get some opinions on what you guys think of 165 grain .40cal rounds versus the 180 grain. Does the gun cycle faster. I one better than the other in terms of home defense. Any advice is welcome.
    John, congrats on the G23, I love mine! If one does cycle the weapon faster than the other you'd never notice. Something to consider about bullet weights for defense: a heavier bullet tends to penetrate deeper (there's a lot of variables I.e you hit bone, velocity, etc) but for this arguments sake say a 165 Vs. 180 both moving at the same velocity, same exact conditions a 180 will penetrate deeper- think of a sportscar and pickup truck moving at the same speed hitting the same wall the truck would move more things out of its way.

    When carrying a weapon for defense, some argue carry the heaviest weight, some argue carry a lighter weight that moves a little faster. I side with the latter, I carry 155 gr gold dot that moves at 1200fps as opposed to the 180gr that moves at 1050 (I think) both are moving very fast considering 115gr 9mm +p get moving at 1300+ fps for its weight.
    The thinking is that a heavier bullet that tends to penetrate deeper (deep penetration is a good thing ballisticly, but can land you in trouble if it pokes out the back and hurts someone innocent) is more of a liability.

    These are things I consider when choosing what ammo for what purposes, others will surely comment on why they disagree and that's a good thing, as not everyone's deciding factors are the same. For home defense I use 180gr gold dot because it's only me, my wife, and my dog all in the same room and if it were to over penetrate I don't have other lives in my house to consider, and have walls as a backdrop which will slow down the bullet significantly before it (heaven forbid) were to leave my house. I live far from other homes and that is also a factor to consider. I know people who choose 100gr frangible for apartment use (though I urge one of the 125/145gr all copper choices)

    I hope I have been of some help, and haven't been too long winded. My last bit of advice is go with a bonded bullet. As mentioned above HST is a great round and is #2 on MY list. I just like the added benefit of bonded technology. Speer gold dot seems to be the leader, with winchesters new bonded rounds having a big following though I've seen numerous ammo tests showing inconsistent expansion
    "One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

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    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

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    These are all really good pieces of advice. Now that I have an idea about home defense rounds I need to become a way better shot. Back to the range and thanks guys.
    Find a gun you like, practice with it, treat it like your baby, and you will be a good shot.
    -My Father

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    Im a Federal LEO and we use Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points in 165 grain. If it good enough for the Feds it's good enough for my personal home defense.

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    As long as you pick reliable ammo and are comfortable with your choice I don't think you can go wrong with any of the premium hp's on the market. Federal Hydra Shocks or HST's......Gold Dots......Hornady Critical Defense (not Critical Duty) Winchesters Ranger or PDX1 There are more.

    I would also note that if you have children then you might look at the lower grain weight to try and limit over penetration. In your home, you are at the advantage, so training(read practice) and awareness is much more important than bullet choice. Having a great, not good, flashlight might also be more important than bullet weight/ choice. Keep in mind that your priority if a BG is in your house needs to be safety of your family first and engaging the threat second. If the BG gets some loot and gets away while you are armed guarding your family then you have done your job and your homeowners insurance, and local LEA are up to bat.
    "buckets of bullets" thats how you get better, if you think your pretty good, shoot another 10k rounds and you will be better.
    Its just my opinion, I tend to prefer them over yours!

    Harrison
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    Quote Originally Posted by BHarrison View Post
    As long as you pick reliable ammo and are comfortable with your choice I don't think you can go wrong with any of the premium hp's on the market. Federal Hydra Shocks or HST's......Gold Dots......Hornady Critical Defense (not Critical Duty) Winchesters Ranger or PDX1 There are more.

    I would also note that if you have children then you might look at the lower grain weight to try and limit over penetration. In your home, you are at the advantage, so training(read practice) and awareness is much more important than bullet choice. Having a great, not good, flashlight might also be more important than bullet weight/ choice. Keep in mind that your priority if a BG is in your house needs to be safety of your family first and engaging the threat second. If the BG gets some loot and gets away while you are armed guarding your family then you have done your job and your homeowners insurance, and local LEA are up to bat.
    BHarrison I think you make a extraordinary point. My priorities have been thought through now. Not that my family wouldn't have been in my mind but its a valid point. I always thought my situation would be keeping people out of my house. Never if they were already in. Thanks for the advice.

    I know people who choose 100gr frangible for apartment use (though I urge one of the 125/145gr all copper choices)
    Tenderoxcity where do you get those frangible rounds and are they hollowpoints?
    Find a gun you like, practice with it, treat it like your baby, and you will be a good shot.
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    [/QUOTE]
    I know people who choose 100gr frangible for apartment use (though I urge one of the 125/145gr all copper choices)
    Tenderoxcity where do you get those frangible rounds and are they hollowpoints?[/QUOTE]

    Check cheaperthandirt.com for them, no they are FMJ looking and are a soft copper shell around many many tiny (often tungsten) balls packed inside and upon impact they are released so it does not penetrate deep at all and instead dumps all of its energy in the first 5-7 inches. Not great ballistically but better than nothing.

    I would suggest the all copper Barnes X bullets. Check out Doubletap.com and they offer pretty dang powerful loads in every caliber. I own and have shot them, they are snappy and powerful.
    "One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

    -- Constitutional scholar Joseph Story, 1840

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

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    here in phx i carry the same ammo as the ppd in the event i must shoot home or on the street i am useing what local le are carriering so when im in court the prosicuting attorny shit hope i spelled that right can not say i was useing bullet to kill a person i can say i have stopping ammo that are local pd is careing

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