Cause of firing pin/FP safety wear
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  1. #1
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    Cause of firing pin/FP safety wear

    Hello all, I appreciate any help I can get on this.

    The pistol in question is an ex-PD G22C, delivered February, 2004. I have yet to shoot the gun, but I have dry fired it maybe 25 times during the course of taking it down, inspecting things and polishing the trigger mechanism. All parts appear to be standard unmodified Glock factory parts. The gun is in good shape otherwise, but I'd imagine it has seen considerable use through the years.

    My questions are:

    1. Is this wear "normal"?
    2. Did dry firing it cause it? If not, what did?
    3. Replacing the FP safety is a given, but can I clean up the firing pin or do I need to replace it? (Smoothing the FP defect isn't an issue as far as doing it, but my concern is if the wear caused too much of a change to the dimensions of the FP.)
    4. Would this wear have any effect on the trigger pull or feel?


    Hopefully the photos will help explain what I'm seeing. In #3 and #4, the displaced metal can be seen. In #5 the wear I'm concerned about is between the arrows. Thanks in advance!

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    Last edited by cobalt327; 04-03-2013 at 09:43 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
    Hello all, I appreciate any help I can get on this.

    The pistol in question is an ex-PD G22C, delivered February, 2004. I have yet to shoot the gun, but I have dry fired it maybe 25 times during the course of taking it down, inspecting things and polishing the trigger mechanism. All parts appear to be standard unmodified Glock factory parts. The gun is in good shape otherwise, but I'd imagine it has seen considerable use through the years.

    My questions are:

    1. Is this wear "normal"?
    2. Did dry firing it cause it? If not, what did?
    3. Replacing the FP safety is a given, but can I clean up the firing pin or do I need to replace it? (Smoothing the FP defect isn't an issue as far as doing it, but my concern is if the wear caused too much of a change to the dimensions of the FP.)
    4. Would this wear have any effect on the trigger pull or feel?


    Hopefully the photos will help explain what I'm seeing. In #3 and #4, the displaced metal can be seen. In #5 the wear I'm concerned about is between the arrows. Thanks in advance!
    Welcome aboard, that's a good post. You provided useful information and good photos, well done.

    Direct answers to your questions are :

    1. No, the wear on the firing pin is not normal.
    2. Dry firing will not cause this sort of wear.
    3. See below for details.
    4. If the trigger pull is weird, it might be explained by comments on the trigger bar below.

    I don't see anything terribly wrong with the Firing Pin Safety, why would you replace it? One thing I would worry about is the Firing Pin Safety Spring, because if that isn't working correctly, the FP safety may be hanging up and causing the damage you see on the firing pin.

    The trigger bar is responsible for pushing the firing pin safety into the slide, out of the way of the firing pin. Please examine the hump (see photo below) on the trigger bar to see if it has any damage at all: if there is any, that could be the source of a timing problem, delaying the movement of the FP safety, and possibly damaging the firing pin. (By the way, your trigger bar may not have the "bump", I believe that showed up on the Gen4 pistols.) If there is any damage or even noticeable wear on that part, replace the trigger and trigger bar: the part number is 357 (both come as a unit).

    Name:  Trigger Bar Hump and Bump.jpg
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    If the trigger bar is OK, I would replace the firing pin, the FP safety spring, and then dry fire it a bit to see if there is any more evidence of damage on the firing pin. If not, I would call the problem solved. If there is still some evidence of the firing pin hitting something, we need to dig deeper.

    Since I have not seen the damage that you have clearly shown on the firing pin, let's give this a day or so to percolate: other members may have seen that damage and dealt with it.

    Stay tuned.

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 04-03-2013 at 10:41 PM.
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    Cobalt, great post, and Chris, GREAT post!

    I have just a couple of things to add:

    1. The little bump on the vertical extension of the trigger bar is on several various Gen3s as well, the Glock 36 being one of them. I asked Dennis Tueller in my Armorer's Course if he knew the mechanical purpose of it, and he said he honestly did not know.

    2. Cobalt, one other thing I see in your pictures that needs addressing in order to avoid part wear is your Spring Cup placement on your Firing Pin Spring.

    Notice how the "Split" between the two halves of the Spring Cups is resting right on the end of the spring coil? It is causing the Spring Cups to spread apart, as well as one sitting lower than the other, which will cause them to wear asymetrically as well as wear faster. It is important for the Firing Pin Spring Cups to wear together and be replaced together.

    I recommend rotating them so that the split between the halves does not sit right on top of the end of the spring coil.

    If you need guidance on how to perform this task, let myself, Chris or any of the other Armorers on the Forum here know, and we will be happy to help out.

    Also, if you need to me to explain anything further or in a different way, let me know

    Chris (Cohland) is right on with everything he said. Congratulations on your Glock, and I KNOW it will serve you well!
    Last edited by Purkeypilot; 04-03-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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  5. #4
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    Thanks, guys. I will reposition the split locks to be even on the FP/spring assembly.

    I should mention the damage to the firing pin looks a lot worse magnified in the photos. In person it's very hard to see w/the naked eye, if that matters. But the fact remains- it IS there, and I agree it can't be normal wear by all indications.

    My concern on the FP safety is the plating is peeling (barely can be seen center, right of photo #1, as well as peeling on the surface that contacts the trigger bar which isn't shown) and there seems to be quite a bit of wear (note the "step" between the worn and unworn surfaces seen in #2), unless this is considered OK.

    In any event I don't see anything that makes me think the FP safety or the trigger bar's "hump" that actuates the safety is worn excessively, bent or damaged, but w/o a new one or some measurements to compare it to, I could be wrong. I cannot think of anything I did that could account for it, and the way it looks to me, it took more than one or two events to do that. And since this gun has an unknown history there's no telling what might have been done in the past.

    As the gun sits now, the safety spring and safety/trigger bar seem to function normally. I've included a photo of the trigger bar, etc. I did the polishing, but I didn't grind anything, anywhere, that would have materially changed any dimensions. Besides I've not fired it yet, although the damage could have been done w/o discharging it, I suppose.

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  6. #5
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    Well, the pin cleaned up reasonably well:
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    Last edited by cobalt327; 04-04-2013 at 03:20 AM.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
    My concern on the FP safety is the plating is peeling (barely can be seen center, right of photo #1, as well as peeling on the surface that contacts the trigger bar which isn't shown) and there seems to be quite a bit of wear (note the "step" between the worn and unworn surfaces seen in #2), unless this is considered OK.
    Peeling of the plating is not unheard of, and I have seen the "step" on the FP safety before. But, it's not an expensive part, and replacing it won't hurt.

    I wonder if, in the past, there was maybe a broken FP safety spring that caused the damage, so in haste the PD armorer replaced that spring and got the gun functioning, and just didn't notice the damage to the firing pin. I would be surprised if that happened because the few PD armorers I've met seem to be pretty thorough folks, but I guess it's possible.

    In any event I don't see anything that makes me think the FP safety or the trigger bar's "hump" that actuates the safety is worn excessively, bent or damaged, but w/o a new one or some measurements to compare it to, I could be wrong. I cannot think of anything I did that could account for it, and the way it looks to me, it took more than one or two events to do that. And since this gun has an unknown history there's no telling what might have been done in the past.
    You're right, the trigger bar looks fine to me.

    As the gun sits now, the safety spring and safety/trigger bar seem to function normally. I've included a photo of the trigger bar, etc. I did the polishing, but I didn't grind anything, anywhere, that would have materially changed any dimensions. Besides I've not fired it yet, although the damage could have been done w/o discharging it, I suppose.

    Name:  trigger bar assembly left 1.jpg
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    Your photo shows one thing that you might check into, and that is some wear in the slot in the Trigger Mechanism Housing. That slot controls vertical movement of the trigger bar, primarily providing a step, down which the trigger bar travels to release the final safety, the drop safety. The photo is a little out of focus in the area that I noticed, so maybe it is OK, but it's worth checking.

    Here is a photo of a new trigger mechanism housing for your gun, with a box outlining the area of concern. If yours is worn badly, that part should be replaced.

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    Speaking of parts replacement, before you spend any (more) money on this gun, are you within driving distance of Smyrna? If you can get down there, take this gun along and stop by the Glock plant and ask for customer service. They will take the gun and, while you wait, go through it from front to back and replace any worn part, and update any outdated parts with new ones...for free.

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 04-04-2013 at 07:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
    Well, the pin cleaned up reasonably well:
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    It did indeed. I'm pretty sure that's a hardened part, so I was surprised to see that much wear on it. We live and learn.

    Chris
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    Great post. I, also would suggest taking it to Glock if you are near Smyrna.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohland View Post
    Peeling of the plating is not unheard of, and I have seen the "step" on the FP safety before. But, it's not an expensive part, and replacing it won't hurt.

    I wonder if, in the past, there was maybe a broken FP safety spring that caused the damage, so in haste the PD armorer replaced that spring and got the gun functioning, and just didn't notice the damage to the firing pin. I would be surprised if that happened because the few PD armorers I've met seem to be pretty thorough folks, but I guess it's possible.

    You're right, the trigger bar looks fine to me.

    Your photo shows one thing that you might check into, and that is some wear in the slot in the Trigger Mechanism Housing. That slot controls vertical movement of the trigger bar, primarily providing a step, down which the trigger bar travels to release the final safety, the drop safety. The photo is a little out of focus in the area that I noticed, so maybe it is OK, but it's worth checking.

    Here is a photo of a new trigger mechanism housing for your gun, with a box outlining the area of concern. If yours is worn badly, that part should be replaced.

    Speaking of parts replacement, before you spend any (more) money on this gun, are you within driving distance of Smyrna? If you can get down there, take this gun along and stop by the Glock plant and ask for customer service. They will take the gun and, while you wait, go through it from front to back and replace any worn part, and update any outdated parts with new ones...for free.

    Chris
    Thanks for the heads-up on the possible trigger housing issue, I will recheck it thoroughly.

    Now, I'm reasonably close to Smyrna (maybe 90 mi. round trip). The idea is very attractive to be able to have a Glock armorer take a good look at the gun and do whatever it needs to put it back into good shape. Not just from a "free parts" standpoint, either- to me the peace of mind is worth it, even if I paid for the parts.

    That said, will me having polished the trigger bar and connector, along w/removing the damage from the striker cause them to deny me their services due to me having tampered w/it?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
    Thanks for the heads-up on the possible trigger housing issue, I will recheck it thoroughly.

    Now, I'm reasonably close to Smyrna (maybe 90 mi. round trip). The idea is very attractive to be able to have a Glock armorer take a good look at the gun and do whatever it needs to put it back into good shape. Not just from a "free parts" standpoint, either- to me the peace of mind is worth it, even if I paid for the parts.

    That said, will me having polished the trigger bar and connector, along w/removing the damage from the striker cause them to deny me their services due to me having tampered w/it?
    Probably not. Their usual approach is to install standard parts and return the other stuff in a Baggie, I am told. But I have never been to Smyrna, let's see if we hear from somebody who has actually taken a gun in to the factory.

    Chris
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