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  1. #31
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    You don't need to spend $1k to acquire a good suppressor. You certainly don't have to pay $200 for a LWD barrel. I have a $200 Huntertown.22 suppressor that works great and has a lifetime warranty. Have their Guardian 9 @$325 that works well on my Glocks AND my 300 Blkout AR.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalterGA View Post
    You don't need to spend $1k to acquire a good suppressor. You certainly don't have to pay $200 for a LWD barrel. I have a $200 Huntertown.22 suppressor that works great and has a lifetime warranty. Have their Guardian 9 @$325 that works well on my Glocks AND my 300 Blkout AR.
    I realize it's speculation on your part ... but why are their's so much cheaper? I can't (or don't want to) believe what many of the other companies charge ... much more than $1G. A .22 for $200 is great, although including the cost for the stamp and paperwork involved certainly begs one to ask the question, "Why all the fuss? Just change the law."
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtwuck View Post
    Actually take it farther back than that and repeal the NFA of 1934 itself.

    The only problem with that repeal would be protests from long term investors and collectors who have been sitting on their collections and watching them grow for years. Not to mention the dealers who are heavy hitters that specialize in NFA products. They would lose millions in investments.
    Quote Originally Posted by haysmclean View Post
    Yes, I believe that is exactly right. There is too much money to be lost by a few. They will raise a big fuss!


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    Well I don't see how this should be an issue, particularly as it pertains to legislation, when you consider that investors are "risk" takers. Whether it's for the purpose of investment or not, collections go up and down in value with popularity. You may have a pristine collection of Cabbage Patch dolls worth millions this year ... but next year no one cares. How would you compare a less valuable collection to confiscation? You smash or melt down gold ... it's still gold. Guns ... don't remain guns. I say let's change the legislation to before Al Capone screwed it up and see who runs for the crying towels. Perhaps there are some Chicago and New York collectors that will have a real moral dilemma as a result.
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  5. #34
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    There are excellent, all-titanium suppressors available for around $750. I can simply attest that my $200 Huntertown .22 suppressor works as well as the excellent Sparrow that costs over twice as much. I'm not currently in a position to change the law.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckskinRider View Post
    Well I don't see how this should be an issue, particularly as it pertains to legislation, when you consider that investors are "risk" takers. Whether it's for the purpose of investment or not, collections go up and down in value with popularity. You may have a pristine collection of Cabbage Patch dolls worth millions this year ... but next year no one cares. How would you compare a less valuable collection to confiscation? You smash or melt down gold ... it's still gold. Guns ... don't remain guns. I say let's change the legislation to before Al Capone screwed it up and see who runs for the crying towels. Perhaps there are some Chicago and New York collectors that will have a real moral dilemma as a result.
    As the old saying goes....."money talks and ******** walks". It's all about the money. To give you an example, before the 1986 ban I could buy a Colt M16 for $400.00-$500.00. And then add $200.00 for the tax stamp. Today that same rifle is pushing the $35k mark. They are doing nothing but going up in price. These owners are going to ride that pony till their great, great, great grandchildren die.

    The political climate and anti-gun movement will have to change drastically before the NFA is repealed. You would think that the NRA would be on board with a repeal, but they're not. The NRA is sport shooting and hunting type guns with a little emphasis on self defense.

    I think that in order to get a law like that repealed, it's going to take big bucks to pay off big politicians.
    Last edited by Fyrtwuck; 01-04-2017 at 06:08 PM.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtwuck View Post
    As the old saying goes....."money talks and ******** walks". It's all about the money. To give you an example, before the 1986 ban I could buy a Colt M16 for $400.00-$500.00. And then add $200.00 for the tax stamp. Today that same rifle is pushing the $35k mark. They are doing nothing but going up in price. These owners are going to ride that pony till their great, great, great grandchildren die.

    The political climate and anti-gun movement will have to change drastically before the NFA is repealed. You would think that the NRA would be on board with a repeal, but they're not. The NRA is sport shooting and hunting type guns with a little emphasis on self defense.

    I think that in order to get a law like that repealed, it's going to take big bucks to pay off big politicians.
    I don't disagree entirely with what you've said. I personally feel that the NRA has to date been picking their battles - weighing public sentiment of those that are "swing-able". A certain portion of the citizenry are strongly pro-2nd Amendment, and then there are a number up the gradient that can be influenced but not by citing the Bill of Rights, (and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with doing so). We all have the capacity to be directed by our emotions. It's how the anti-gunners gain as much ground as they do ... as do such groups as the Humane Society. They don't merely cite statistics on their commercials when soliciting funds, it's about a dog or cat that's obviously been severely neglected and/or abused.

    Where I would disagree with you first is as regards your comment that "The NRA is sport shooting and hunting type guns with a little emphasis on self defense." Can you provide evidence for this? I find quite the opposite to be true.

    Secondly, if money is what determines the success or failure of any attempt to change conditions in our country, how do you explain the recent election results? It would appear that the political climate may change dramatically. Unless you've talked to the leadership of the NRA, how is it you know that they aren't 'on-board' with the repeal of everything that is not in accordance with the Constitution. Everything that I read says quite the opposite. The Democrat party threw money at the election ... Soros didn't get bought ... he paid. And in my opinion he got nothing back. They are still in shock. It's very possible the more they act up the more damage they'll do to themselves.

    Here in Iowa there are groups that condemn the NRA for not taking the position that either all proposed legislation is free of interference, i.e. totally representative of the 2nd Amendment ... OR NOT AT ALL! We now have legislation that prevents the local sheriff from arbitrarily denying carry permits. Last year legislation passed allowing for suppressors. Iowa was one of very few states where citizens were banned by state statute from even applying for one. There's much more legislation that's passed regarding firearms ... AND more in the mill for this session. We now have Republican majorities in both Iowa houses. And the NRA was instrumental in all of it. I can't say how it is in OK ... but here it was horrible. Two major cities had enough population to essentially dictate how us rural hicks lived. Well now it's time for payback.

    I don't want to sound disagreeable ... but blaming the rich and powerful for all the problems when average citizens don't vote or go to a local council meeting, or get involved in their local neighborhood issues, seems like a weak argument to me. America for all it's faults stands or falls on the shoulders of it's citizens. Get enough to say, "No more", and things will change.

    Criminals are to blame for all this. When citizens don't demand proper treatment, they leave the decision making up to a very, very small and elite (in their opinion) few.

    Today Obama pontificated how proud he was to serve with the military. So why the neglect under his watch at the VA? Do we need to wait for a change in the Democrats to get veterans what they need ... no. I don't agree with you that we need to wait for anyone to do what is right or necessary. Remember ... lead, follow or get out of the way. The political climate should be what we citizens say it is. Let's not just lie down.

    Happy New Year to you and yours Fyrtwuck!
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  8. #37
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    If the 1986 Full Auto Ban was repealed, and as a direct result M-16's that people paid upward of $25K for, dropped in price back down to $1,600.00, (Which is about their actual worth), how is that any different than these people who ran out during the housing boom, and foolishly paid $350,000.00 for homes that were worth less than a third of that? It's not. A house or a gun is worth what the market will bear AT THE TIME IT IS SOLD. The fact is markets change. Sometimes very drastically. There is only so much material in a house or a gun. Along with manufacturing costs that are pretty much the same everywhere. Both of those factors account for a certain number of dollars far below the actual selling price. The rest is determined by ACTUAL value and profit at the time of sale. And there are millions of each, with more of both being built every day of the week. The remainder of the value is controlled by other changing factors that are out of the hands of the investor. If those market conditions do change, it means violent price swings. This be it houses or guns. The people who paid high prices for these weapons are betting the law will remain in place. Perhaps it will. Maybe it won't.
    I don't need my AR-15 "Assault Rifle" any more than Rosa Parks needed to sit in the front of the bus.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by billt View Post
    If the 1986 Full Auto Ban was repealed, and as a direct result M-16's that people paid upward of $25K for, dropped in price back down to $1,600.00, (Which is about their actual worth), how is that any different than these people who ran out during the housing boom, and foolishly paid $350,000.00 for homes that were worth less than a third of that? It's not. A house or a gun is worth what the market will bear AT THE TIME IT IS SOLD. The fact is markets change. Sometimes very drastically. There is only so much material in a house or a gun. Along with manufacturing costs that are pretty much the same everywhere. Both of those factors account for a certain number of dollars far below the actual selling price. The rest is determined by ACTUAL value and profit at the time of sale. And there are millions of each, with more of both being built every day of the week. The remainder of the value is controlled by other changing factors that are out of the hands of the investor. If those market conditions do change, it means violent price swings. This be it houses or guns. The people who paid high prices for these weapons are betting the law will remain in place. Perhaps it will. Maybe it won't.
    I would only add that a 'thing' is worth what someone is willing to pay for 'it'. The worth may or may not be based on market value. Often times ... as seen in the auction houses ... value is based on the final bid. Anything prior to that is merely an estimate. Art for example is not like a house or a gun that has a 'use'. We've all seen weapons that now can't even be shot that bring extremely high prices. My point is that the value of anything is subject to many factors, and when you put up the green (or gold) you assume the risk ... if this is done as an investment ... that the value will increase. My Father's rifle is one of many thousands, and yet it's not something I can see parting with for any price. The book value isn't diminished by that fact.

    Those that paid, and are now paying high prices for automatic weapons have more than just one reason for doing so. Again to my previous point, if you drop the 'value' those that made the purchases will react accordingly ... and I'm sure some will not be upset or as upset if our 2nd Amendment rights are fully restored. This example can be measured in many ways. I just don't think it's that cut and dry of argument.
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckskinRider View Post
    I would only add that a 'thing' is worth what someone is willing to pay for 'it'. The worth may or may not be based on market value. Often times ... as seen in the auction houses ... value is based on the final bid. Anything prior to that is merely an estimate. Art for example is not like a house or a gun that has a 'use'. We've all seen weapons that now can't even be shot that bring extremely high prices. My point is that the value of anything is subject to many factors, and when you put up the green (or gold) you assume the risk ... if this is done as an investment ... that the value will increase. My Father's rifle is one of many thousands, and yet it's not something I can see parting with for any price. The book value isn't diminished by that fact.

    Those that paid, and are now paying high prices for automatic weapons have more than just one reason for doing so. Again to my previous point, if you drop the 'value' those that made the purchases will react accordingly ... and I'm sure some will not be upset or as upset if our 2nd Amendment rights are fully restored. This example can be measured in many ways. I just don't think it's that cut and dry of argument.
    While all that may be true. At least to some extent. It doesn't change the fact that most transferable full auto weaponry was made extremely valuable by enacting a law in 1986 that greatly escalated their value. They're not rare. They are regulated into false rarity by restrictions on ownership. Regulations can change. If they do their value will plummet. At least the common one's. In this regard they cannot be compared to fine art, rare Winchester's or Colt's, or rare gold coins. Of which there are only a few, and no more will ever be created, except in the form of reproductions. Which hold nowhere near the value.
    I don't need my AR-15 "Assault Rifle" any more than Rosa Parks needed to sit in the front of the bus.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by billt View Post
    While all that may be true. At least to some extent. It doesn't change the fact that most transferable full auto weaponry was made extremely valuable by enacting a law in 1986 that greatly escalated their value. They're not rare. They are regulated into false rarity by restrictions on ownership. Regulations can change. If they do their value will plummet. At least the common one's. In this regard they cannot be compared to fine art, rare Winchester's or Colt's, or rare gold coins. Of which there are only a few, and no more will ever be created, except in the form of reproductions. Which hold nowhere near the value.
    I guess we'll have to disagree. Their "value" is whatever someone wants to pay. If today something is worth $10, legislation is passed that regulates it into a new false category of value of $1,000, and a week from now the regulation is rescinded causing the value to be $10 again ... what's the items real value? Unless you PAID $1,000 it's value hasn't changed. If you paid $10 and it went to $1,000, then back to $10 ... you didn't lose $990.
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