Striker Spring Weight - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortTom View Post
    O.K., if anyone's reading this thread, besides those who've responded let me start with a disclaimer. I am not a Glock Armorer. Heed any advice of an armorer, over my experimenting for your own personal safety and that of others.

    O.K. So here are the following changes I've made to a stock G23. Complete polish job, including re-polishing the Lone Wolf connector that came with a kit I bought from Lone Wolf. I installed the Lone Wolf Trigger stop. I did not install the 4lb. striker spring, heeding the advice of other's about the danger of light primer strikes, and that would basically render the weapon usless as a self-defense gun, being that it would possibly fail any time or multiple times due to light primer strikes and misfires, hang fires and whatever else might go wrong.

    I installed a heavier (6lb.) trigger spring at the advice of Lone Wolf, having said it would give a smoother take up. I've read all of my own material, including The Complete Glock Reference by PTOOMA publishing. By the way, I would recommend this book to anyone who might be new to Glocks, and working on their own guns. It was recommended to me by folks (armorers) on this forum, and I think if you only buy one accessory for your Glock, this would be a good start. However, for the life of me, all of my research couldn't explain how a heavier trigger spring made for a lighter, smoother take-up, but it did, so I'll leave it to greater minds than mine to explain.

    Here's where it got sticky. The standard glock striker spring is 5.5lbs. according to my research, and 4lbs. is too light, so I wanted to try a 5lb. striker spring, reducing striker spring weight by 0.5lbs. That raised some eyebrows, from some very qualified people. Safety, of course was the main concern again. The 5lb. striker spring came today (plus I wisely bought several more spring cups), just in case.

    The take up and break were discernible, with the new striker spring, and the break felt good, but that is absolutely subjective, as I didn't have a trigger pull gauge to measure the weight of trigger pull with a 5.5lb spring. I'm thinking about 1/2lb. or a tad more. I have a Lyman digital trigger pull gauge on the way, so I'll know the exact weight.
    But OSS, and others were concerned about [I]safety[I], not actual trigger pull weight. I still heed their advice, but will save that for the next paragraph. I wanted to see if I could lower take-up, trigger break weight and STILL be safe.

    So, I've got 150 rounds of Federal Ammo, (it seems the consensus is that they are harder than CCI or Win.) I've got a couple of hundred rounds of Win White Box FMJ, and a couple of hundred rounds of Hornady XTP. That's all I'm willing to shoot right now, because of difficulties in replacing it, but that's going to have to be the basis for my SPC. I know a few hundred data points would not satisfy any Quality Engineer, but for now that's what I'll have to deal with. One failure of any kind, and all bets are off. The 5.5lb. striker spring will go back into the gun, and that will be that. I do have a conversion barrel and a lot of 9mm to shoot, but I don't want to include another "modification" into the equation, that by itself may give bad results.

    Now, the next step. If the 5.0lb striker spring weight proves safe, I'm thinking of purchasing a Pyramid Trigger System, so that I can adjust out a lot of the take up, as well as over travel.

    Now I'm pretty sure I have qualified Glock armorers rolling their eyes....... I didn't take the armorer's "blood oath", I just don't want to bleed any of my own...

    Any ideas? Suggestions? wan't to call me names?.... Feel free to do so.

    FT
    Yes, I do have something to say......I for one am very proud of your approach and willingness to make slow measured and deliberate steps. The way you are approaching this will provide many with valuable information. Well Done!
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otintx View Post
    I have read this until I can not remain silent anymore ... when was the last case of a prosecutor testing a weapon for trigger pull ?


    Do they have George Zimmerman's weapon in the lab hooked up to pulls, gages, and weights, testing to see if it complies with the OEM specifications ?

    Nope and if I were a betting person I'd bet that is not going to happen either .....


    I will stand corrected if some reports can be posted stating that this is happening in shooting cases being prosecuted today.
    I understand your feeling on this and rightly so, I offer the following for you to read: Guns, Firearms, Projectile Weapon Sports: gun modification, google, guide rods ; Thousands of crime guns yet to be tested by Spokane Police | KREM.com Spokane ; http://www.azballistics.com/wst_page5.html ; System and Methods for Linking Multiple Events Involving Firearms and Gang Related Activities - Patent application , I believe I can also get some court case numbers from Oklahoma County but it may take a couple of days. The way it was explained to me was in the line of the shooter showing intent to do greater harm or be more lethal than "the reasonable and prudent man".
    The term "Undocumented Alien" is like calling a drug pusher an "Un-Licensed Pharmacist"

  3. #13
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    Scratch the Pyramid Trigger, it uses a 2lb., 4lb. striker spring to lighten trigger pull. Just what I don't want. Uses a skeletonized striker to compensate for ultra light striker springs. It does let you adjust for pre-travel and over-travel. I can already adjust for over travel. But, this kit's use outside of competition only is not for me. It goes right back to rendering the weapon useless for self defense. Also, 3lb. or 2lb. trigger breaks are way to light for safe use as a self-defense weapon, for me. My personal low limit is between 3.5lbs and 4lbs. And that is too low for many other's tastes. So, besides waiting on the Lyman digital trigger gauge and seeing exactly what the pull is with the modifications I've made so far, I've decided that this is as far as I'm going. I do know that the pull is much smoother, and the break much crisper and somewhat lower than stock, with no trigger creep. So my investment has been minimal. The results, surprisingly better than expected, and if tests at the range prove safe, I feel that I've got as good as I can go with a Glock trigger for a SD weapon.

    Thanks to all who've helped/advised me through this. Now if I can just get my hands on a nice G19

    FT
    Last edited by FortTom; 06-28-2013 at 09:02 PM.
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortTom View Post
    ...I can already adjust for over travel...
    How do you adjust for over-travel? I didn't find it in your earlier post.

    If the method is a Ghost Rocket or other Ghost connector with a tab that was filed to fit your gun, then you're probably good to go. If you are using a trigger mechanism housing with a set screw to adjust over-travel (from Glocktriggers or Lone Wolf, perhaps others), please keep an eye on the thing.

    I had one in a Gen3 G35 that I use in USPSA Open Division, and I was sailing along happily in a match when the trigger stopped resetting. At first I thought it was something wrong with the ammo, but it quickly went from annoying to 100% failure. The only way I could get it to reset was to cycle the slide, which I did through the end of the stage. I think I left 10 live rounds on the deck! Anyway, the only thing I could think of was the over-travel screw, so I hustled out to the car, dug out a stock trigger mechanism housing, put it in the gun and finished the match.

    The only way this could have happened, I believe, is for the set screw to have rotated IN, and for the life of me I don't know how that could have happened. Further, I don't know if Loctite would secure the set screw in the plastic housing. With two unknowns in facing me with this part, I just stopped using it. You may have a better experience than I did, I just wanted to pass along what happened to mine.

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 06-29-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohland View Post
    How do you adjust for over-travel? I didn't find it in your earlier post.

    If the method is a Ghost Rocket or other Ghost connector with a tab that was filed to fit your gun, then you're probably good to go. If you are using a trigger mechanism housing with a set screw to adjust over-travel (from Glocktriggers or Lone Wolf, perhaps others), please keep an eye on the thing.

    I had one in a Gen3 G35 that I use in USPSA Open Division, and I was sailing along happily in a match when the trigger stopped resetting. At first I thought it was something wrong with the ammo, but it quickly went from annoying to 100% failure. The only way I could get it to reset was to cycle the slide, which I did through the end of the stage. I think I left 10 live rounds on the deck! Anyway, the only thing I could think of was the over-travel screw, so I hustled out to the car, dug out a stock trigger mechanism housing, put it in the gun and finished the match.

    The only way this could have happened, I believe, is for the set screw to have rotated IN, and for the life of me I don't know how that could have happened. Further, I don't know if Loctite would secure the set screw in the plastic housing. With two unknowns in facing me with this part, I just stopped using it. You may have a better experience than I did, I just wanted to pass along what happened to mine.

    Chris
    Chris, I'm using the Lone Wolf trigger housing. I'm way ahead of you on the issue of the set screw possibly backing out or even turning in. After some testing at the range, I plan to pull it out, turn out the allen screw, while counting the number of turns, then put a drop or two of clear fingernail polish in there to hold it in. Loc Tite would work with plastic, probably green or blue, wouldn't want red or you'd never turn it out without destroying the threads, but I've used clear nail polish on some highly sophisticated industrial robot parts, (shhhhhhh... don't tell that's a super secret engineering procedure only), mainly end effectors that take a lot of abuse, made out of a polymer of numerous types. Works great.

    I would like to take a BIG guess and say that your comp gun had probably gone through more rigorous use at that stage, than my G23 will in a life time of shooting it, causing the set screw to vibrate out like that, you probably shot more in 2 matches and a couple of weeks of pre-match practice, than mine will ever fire. Again, I'm only guessing, but yes, I'm going to give it a little more "grip" in the threads.

    Thanks for the observation,

    FT.
    Last edited by cohland; 06-29-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortTom View Post
    Chris, I'm using the Lone Wolf trigger housing. I'm way ahead of you on the issue of the set screw possibly backing out or even turning in. After some testing at the range, I plan to pull it out, turn out the allen screw, while counting the number of turns, then put a drop or two of clear fingernail polish in there to hold it in. Loc Tite would work with plastic, probably green or blue, wouldn't want red or you'd never turn it out without destroying the threads, but I've used clear nail polish on some highly sophisticated industrial robot parts, (shhhhhhh... don't tell that's a super secret engineering procedure only), mainly end effectors that take a lot of abuse, made out of a polymer of numerous types. Works great.

    I would like to take a BIG guess and say that your comp gun had probably gone through more rigorous use at that stage, than my G23 will in a life time of shooting it, causing the set screw to vibrate out like that, you probably shot more in 2 matches and a couple of weeks of pre-match practice, than mine will ever fire. Again, I'm only guessing, but yes, I'm going to give it a little more "grip" in the threads.
    Thanks, I never would have thought of using clear nail polish, but it sounds like a very good solution. I will try it on a G17 I'm getting ready to shoot in USPSA Production (because I can't get another G34...). The adjustable over-travel is a very nice feature to have.

    Will nail polish remover attack the polymer in Glock parts? I don't know, just wonder if you do.

    Speaking of Loctite, if you ever have trouble getting it out of an assembly, you might try using a product called UN-CURE™, which can be found in hobby stores. It softens up cyanoacrylate the the consistency of chewed bubble gum so that it can be removed. I've also had some success using acetone to do that same thing.

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 06-30-2013 at 01:26 PM.
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  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohland View Post
    Will nail polish remover attack the polymer in Glock parts? I don't know, just wonder if you do.

    Chris
    I seriously doubt it, however we are only talking a droplet or two. I've also used it to secure fiber optic sights. It holds well, doesn't harm the small bits of FO rod, and is clear, and doesn't block out light, reducing the brightness of the sight.

    I've never used it for a large job in a glock, and can't imagine why I would, so I guess I can't answer that. We used to use it in numerous parts of end effectors in industrial robots of all sizes, and preferred it over Loc Tite, for holding small allen screws, screws that held proximity switches, optics, etc. Kept them from vibrating out, under heavy use. When it was time to adjust them, or tear the part down for a rebuild or preventive maintenance, a simple T handle allen wrench would remove them. It (nail polish sealant) would snap like glass, and out it came, no damage to threads in different poymers. Letting a drop of nail polish remover creep in for 10 - 30 seconds would make tiny parts loosen up for easy removal.

    But back to your question, I'd use it very sparingly, such as the trigger housing set screw, just to be prudent. Parts that can be replaced cheaply.

    FT.
    Last edited by FortTom; 06-30-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortTom View Post
    I seriously doubt it, however we are only talking a droplet or two. I've also used it to secure fiber optic sights. It holds well, doesn't harm the small bits of FO material, and is clear, and doesn't block out light, reducing the brightness of the sight....Letting a drop of nail polish remover creep in for 10 - 30 seconds would make tiny parts loosen up for easy removal....But back to your question, I'd use it very sparingly, such as the trigger housing set screw, just to be prudent. Parts that can be replaced cheaply...
    I just bought some clear nail polish and remover, and I'll give it a try on the overtavel screw next week. The notion that the nail polish is brittle gives me some clues about possible future applications, where I want it to hold but I need to change it pretty frequently.

    Good idea, thank you for passing it along.

    Chris
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    FortTom - Absolutely the question(s) and potential answers thread about spring weight that i've been looking for. Please keep us up to date on how you are progressing and how the gun is performing on the range. I am curious as to where you found the 5lb striker spring - as i would like to try that in my own 23 if you feel it's worth the effort. Thank you for all of the information so far and whatever you provide in the future.

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    I didn't read all posts, as I'm just seeing this, but in response to to the OP, you can also try a NY trigger spring with a negative connector. It is something me and my agency were considering for our G22s. Also, yes, as a Glock Armorer, I would also say stay away from nonglock aftermarket parts. Just never know how reliable they are. Without the Armorer slide cover plate, you can't check the connection percentage between the trigger bar and the firing pin. With a bad connection it could fail you at the wrong time.
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