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Striker Spring Weight

78K views 39 replies 14 participants last post by  Otintx 
#1 ·
I recently did a trigger polish job, and installed a Lone Wolf trigger stop in my G23. I was given advice here NOT to install the 4lb. striker spring, except in a comp gun, due to reliability issues and light primer strikes which could prove deadly in a carry gun. I followed that advice. Lone wolf told me to leave the 6lb. trigger spring in also, over the 5lb. that came with the kit, saying that the it would give me a smoother trigger pull. I heeded that advice, although I didn't understand the mechanics behind it.

I did install a Lone Wolf 3.5lb. connector, which I polished because the plating looked fairly rippled, and it polished up very well and smooth.

So, I'm one of those that can never leave well enough alone. I can't help it, and am too old to change now. I'm almost compulsively inquisitive. I had to find out what the stock striker spring weight that is in the G23 was, and that was easy enough. 5.5lbs. So, if the difference between a comp spring and a carry spring was 1.5lbs. and I got a good trigger with that combination, would .5lbs or 1/3 of the difference between go and no go, make a difference. My first guess was no, but I'm talking a 33% difference. It should relate to a noticeable difference in trigger pull, I would guess

So, I found a 5lb. striker spring and it's on it's way. Any thoughts on this? Yea? Nay? Good? Evil?

Should take less than 30 minutes or less to do. Without a trigger pull gauge , I'll have to have a serious difference to notice a change at all.

Maybe I should stop goofing around with stuff, but I don't think I own a completely stock gun....period. At the least my hunting rifles have all had Timney triggers installed.
My M4 has a Wilson Combat Single stage 3.5lb "3 Gun" trigger in it. Both of my M&P's have APEX FSS triggers with approx. 3.5 ~4.0 triggers with so little take up and overtravel that they actually feel like 1911A1 triggers, speaking of 1911's and modifications.....:D

Back to the Glock, I wonder where the line is between a comp trigger and a reliable carry trigger actually is? Some of you armorers (yep I know the blood oath thing about non-standard parts, spec's etc..) want to weigh in here? I'm interested in hearing any advice, predictions, etc.

Thanks,

FT:cool:
 
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#2 ·
Tom, predictions are easy so instead I will offer you this food for thought. There are multiple reasons we armorers stay the "party line" and no it isn't the koolaid either. Allow my thought pattern here, you are faced with a situation where you pull your Glock in self defense. The situation calms almost as quickly as it started until the person makes an unexpected move in reflex your finger goes to the trigger and boom. No you didn't plan on shooting yet and you had done everything right until that moment and even then you still felt that way. The human nature can't stop the body's autonomic response (fight or flight) and the adrenaline is pumping and there is nothing you can do about it. The end result is BOOM. Allow me to take this just a little farther; think about the famous "New York Triggers" The reason they came about in the first place was because the 29,000 members of the NYPD were having too many "accidental" shootings. The officer was holding someone at gunpoint and all of a sudden....bang. So NYPD got with Glock and the 8 pound NY Trigger was born. But that isn't the end to this story quite yet boys and girls....NYPD even after the change was still having far too many unintentional shootings so back to the drawing board and the New York 2 Trigger was born all 12 pounds of her. Most people do just fine with the stock 5.5 pound trigger pull and it will also save you more grief. My last point is this (I promise it is the last) when the investigation comes and your firearm is examined and tested the first question was why did you need to a softer trigger pull and who did the work. The attorneys eat this up. Now you know why we don't and mostly won't modify a Glock that is used as an everyday carry firearm. Be SAFE.....Shoot WELL
 
#3 ·
I have read this until I can not remain silent anymore ... when was the last case of a prosecutor testing a weapon for trigger pull ?


Do they have George Zimmerman's weapon in the lab hooked up to pulls, gages, and weights, testing to see if it complies with the OEM specifications ?

Nope and if I were a betting person I'd bet that is not going to happen either .....


I will stand corrected if some reports can be posted stating that this is happening in shooting cases being prosecuted today.
 
#12 ·
I have read this until I can not remain silent anymore ... when was the last case of a prosecutor testing a weapon for trigger pull ?

Do they have George Zimmerman's weapon in the lab hooked up to pulls, gages, and weights, testing to see if it complies with the OEM specifications ?

Nope and if I were a betting person I'd bet that is not going to happen either .....

I will stand corrected if some reports can be posted stating that this is happening in shooting cases being prosecuted today.
I understand your feeling on this and rightly so, I offer the following for you to read: Guns, Firearms, Projectile Weapon Sports: gun modification, google, guide rods ; Thousands of crime guns yet to be tested by Spokane Police | KREM.com Spokane ; http://www.azballistics.com/wst_page5.html ; System and Methods for Linking Multiple Events Involving Firearms and Gang Related Activities - Patent application , I believe I can also get some court case numbers from Oklahoma County but it may take a couple of days. The way it was explained to me was in the line of the shooter showing intent to do greater harm or be more lethal than "the reasonable and prudent man".
 
#4 ·
I think the issue is more applicable in the muddy world of "Civil Court" vs "Criminal Court". In respect to the George Zimmerman case, if indeed he is found criminally innocent, the odds are that he will be sued in a "civil court" for wrongful death. In that type of proceeding, that's where an "altered gun" would be likely to be used against the shooter.

If one is fighting for your life in a gunfight, you would want any advantage possible. If there is a tragic unintended consequence, a stray shot that hits a bystander for instance, anything and everything is going to become "material".

I understand that a "better trigger" would not cause a wrongful death, only a "bad shooting" would... But in a civil court? Who knows? I just pray I never have to find out....
 
#5 ·
Back to the Glock, I wonder where the line is between a comp trigger and a reliable carry trigger actually is? Some of you armorers (yep I know the blood oath thing about non-standard parts, spec's etc..) want to weigh in here? I'm interested in hearing any advice, predictions, etc.

Thanks,

FT:cool:
Part of that line comes because of the difference between competition and carry ammo... Competition ammo is usually loaded lighter than self defense ammo... different springs are used for these light rounds... change to carry ammo (+p or whatever) and you'll need to use heavier recoil springs...

Most Glock competition shooters use Federal primers so they can run light striker springs to get the trigger pull weight down... change to carry ammo with standard (CCI or whatever) primers and you'll probably get some light strikes... even if your lightened striker has an extended firing pin tip... It may be only once every 40 rounds or so, but you can't leave that to chance for a carry gun.

So, my advise is... don't try to hot rod a carry gun... not even a little... not even up to the/a line...
 
#38 ·
I've hot rodded carry guns before, but there's a give. With a lighter trigger and plunger spring there needs to be a heavier firing pin spring to make sure primer strikes are reliable. With a skeletonized firing pin, your channel liner needs to have dry lubrication like TiN. If you lighten the slide with custom cuts you need to have a heavier guide rod spring to compensate for the increased recoil. And on and on. Your Hot Rod needs to be balanced between performance and reliability.
 
#6 ·
First of all, this debate was not what I was looking for, I was looking for a technical answer or educated best guess. I see this type of thing happen on an M&P forum all of the time.
Someone will inevitably (even though there are already 10 threads on the exact same subject) ask, do you think Smith will ever make a M&P in 10mm. No more than 3 posts later, someone will answer, "you don't need one" because (fill in the blanks). I find it humorous, but see it enough to think that there must be some psychological influence there somewhere.

Before I address OSS's concerns, let me say that I believe that the "3.5 lb. trigger pull is the threshold for a competition trigger" is fictional. There is no real threshold as to what a competition trigger is. Nothing recorded, nada. Most major gun builders, such as Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, will only do anything under that for competition shooters only, and you'd better be known well enough to prove to them that's exactly what the gun is intended for.

Every 1911 I've ever owned long enough to keep got or had a trigger job of somewhere between 3.5 ~ 4lb. I feel if a person considers this too light, by all means, stay stock or if possible, go higher.

Otintx has it absolutely correct. I won't repeat him, except that I want to throw-up every time I hear about light triggers and (my addition) reloads being the tools of attorneys everywhere to turn the tables on the good guys and put them in prison while the bad guy walks away with millions. It doesn't happen. I challenge anyone to find multiple cases of this. Police departments have been hit with lawsuits, but as with the Glock, arbitrary numbers were thrown out by prosecutors and deparments to basically overcome what was poor training, not a 5.5lb. stock trigger pull of a Glock pistol. New York? Basically all they did was duplicate the revolver and endanger under trained cops, and civilians when that trigger throws a flyer 4 feet from the target. Of course, in New York you can't even get a 32oz. big gulp, they want to keep you that safe...:p

I have never heard, except anecdotally where a reload gets someone thrown in jail either. A self defense bullet is designed to incapacitate a bad guy. Nothing you or I could dream up, assuming standard components, can do any more harm than what's available over the counter. I only throw this in, because it's bound to pop up in the same (an attorney will get you if you use reloaded ammo) discussion. Please cite me at least more than one case, where an evidence collector collected a shell casing after a justifiable self-defense shooting, and present to the prosecutor that the shooter may have been using reloads. I heard that same argument, over and over in the 80's. A clown named Massad Ayoob was espousing all kinds of "legal" advice, that included. Then good ol' Mas wasn't heard from for a time. Why? Because he was caught "embellishing" and the bigger name magazines of the time dropped him. He continued to work for some of the lesser quality publications at the time, and has since made a bit of a comeback, as 2 and 3 new generations don't know about or was even born during the heyday good 'ol Mas. I bring this up because things like that are another venue for B.S. spreading like wildfire. Now we have the internet, and it can spread at the speed of light.

To OSS (man I wish I could figure out this multi-quote thing). Let me quote from this "Living with Glocks" by Robert H. Boatman, from a chapter titled the Enigmatic Glock Trigger.
"The concept of competition only triggers, is, of course, the invention of lawyers to protect their clients from fellow lawyers, suing on behalf of jerks with empty heads and heavy hands, who have accidently stumbled on the fact they are unqualified to operate light machinery".

To be fair to OSS, it does go on to explain the same points that OSS did about motor skills under stress, etc.

What it also does, I can't quote all of chapter 14 in the book, explain is that the 5.5 or higher average trigger pull on the Glock was not a majestic golden nugget of knowledge that fell out of the mind(s) of G. Glock, and other Glock engineers that this is the absolutely non-negotiable, swear on your mother's grave, holy grail of trigger pulls, and thou shalt not screw with it, so help me Glock. It was settled upon a good jumping off point for the average shooter. Glock, in his own words, realized that different people had different needs as far as triggers. LEO Departments can go higher, average shooters can stay around that number, and competitors can go as low as the rules allow.

OSS is also absolutely correct about motors skills under stress. As we progressed further and further in the military, as far as our pistol and rifle shooting skills went, that was pounded into our brains ad nauseam. And for good reason. My only reason to debate OSS's position, is, that 5.5lbs is not the majic number where those mechanics of the brain and trigger finger meet. Glocks lawyers probably feel pretty "litigation proof" with that number, also. However, I've shot in lanes next to people who I don't think had any business firing anything more lethal than a cap gun. No "imposed" limit could make them safe.

So, in summary, between 3.5 and 4.0lbs, is for me, just right. For someone else, they may be as happy as a maggot on road kill to shoot any firearm with a stock trigger, regardless of weight. And for some, 12lb. trigger's may be on the light side of safe. I'm going farther out on a limb here and say that the "thou shall not touch a stock Glock trigger" is the party line of Glock lawyers". For myself, if I can get my trigger to 4lbs. and after considerable time at the range, feel that it's not too light, then I'll do it, if it makes the hair stand up on the back of my head, or I get misfires, hangfires, or other failures traced to modifications, I will put the stock components back in it ASAP. You can bank on that.

So, to answer my original question, does anyone know where a 5lb. striker spring will put me (approximately) in terms of trigger pull weight, considering the modifications I've already done, or should I say would you care to venture a guess?

_Jb I'm not hot rodding my gun, I see it as tuning. I do realize the dangers of light primer strikes, I thought I addressed that in my original post. I don't want to get near that point, and that was the reason I did not install the 4lb.striker spring that came with the kit, when advised by folk here that that was the drop dead weight that you don't want to cross, without the danger of light primer strikes. For every trigger system there is a "do not push the limit" weight. I've gotten scope eye from shooting a buddy's custom german rifle with a double set trigger, from the bench. I think that when set, that rear trigger could be measured in ounces. I know I didn't like it and had something the size of an egg over the top of my eye with a nice crescent crease in the skin. 1911's have had the sear's stone so far as to turn them into "machine pistols", and impart pieces of slide into one's skull.. For me, like I've said, that perfect number comes in right between 3.5 and 4.0. If I can't get a 4.0lb trigger with a Glock, that is not both safe and reliable, then I'll know I've crossed a line.

Thanks, it has been a great conversation, and I'm sure there will be more replies.

FT:cool:
P.S. One more technical question? Can someone pleeeeezee explain to me how to use that multi-quote feature?:D
 
#7 ·
Click the "Multi-Quote This Message" button for each message you want to quote (except the last one)... a check mark will appear.

Click "Reply With Quote" on the last message and all of the messages will be quoted in the reply box.
 
#8 ·
FWIW FT, i still read Mas' articles as I get all of the gun magazines monthly/bi-monthly, and have to agree he has been on a decline for awhile as far as the articles being full of tech and not injected with personal observations.
 
#9 ·
In the late 70's through the 80's, I assumed (see, I'm stupid already) that everything he said was carved in stone. Turns out a lot of what he said/claimed/did/ was filler for magazine articles to sell. I lost all respect for the guy when certain things came to light. Back then he was usually in Shooting Times, Guns and Ammo, and most of the Peterson Publishing sister magazines. Then he went dark. The rest is history.

FT:cool:
 
#10 ·
Striker Spring Weight Phase II

O.K., if anyone's reading this thread, besides those who've responded let me start with a disclaimer. I am not a Glock Armorer. Heed any advice of an armorer, over my experimenting for your own personal safety and that of others.

O.K. So here are the following changes I've made to a stock G23. Complete polish job, including re-polishing the Lone Wolf connector that came with a kit I bought from Lone Wolf. I installed the Lone Wolf Trigger stop. I did not install the 4lb. striker spring, heeding the advice of other's about the danger of light primer strikes, and that would basically render the weapon usless as a self-defense gun, being that it would possibly fail any time or multiple times due to light primer strikes and misfires, hang fires and whatever else might go wrong.

I installed a heavier (6lb.) trigger spring at the advice of Lone Wolf, having said it would give a smoother take up. I've read all of my own material, including The Complete Glock Reference by PTOOMA publishing. By the way, I would recommend this book to anyone who might be new to Glocks, and working on their own guns. It was recommended to me by folks (armorers) on this forum, and I think if you only buy one accessory for your Glock, this would be a good start. However, for the life of me, all of my research couldn't explain how a heavier trigger spring made for a lighter, smoother take-up, but it did, so I'll leave it to greater minds than mine to explain.

Here's where it got sticky. The standard glock striker spring is 5.5lbs. according to my research, and 4lbs. is too light, so I wanted to try a 5lb. striker spring, reducing striker spring weight by 0.5lbs. That raised some eyebrows, from some very qualified people. Safety, of course was the main concern again. The 5lb. striker spring came today (plus I wisely bought several more spring cups:p), just in case.

The take up and break were discernible, with the new striker spring, and the break felt good, but that is absolutely subjective, as I didn't have a trigger pull gauge to measure the weight of trigger pull with a 5.5lb spring. I'm thinking about 1/2lb. or a tad more. I have a Lyman digital trigger pull gauge on the way, so I'll know the exact weight.
But OSS, and others were concerned about safety, not actual trigger pull weight. I still heed their advice, but will save that for the next paragraph. I wanted to see if I could lower take-up, trigger break weight and STILL be safe.

So, I've got 150 rounds of Federal Ammo, (it seems the consensus is that they are harder than CCI or Win.) I've got a couple of hundred rounds of Win White Box FMJ, and a couple of hundred rounds of Hornady XTP. That's all I'm willing to shoot right now, because of difficulties in replacing it, but that's going to have to be the basis for my SPC. I know a few hundred data points would not satisfy any Quality Engineer, but for now that's what I'll have to deal with. One failure of any kind, and all bets are off. The 5.5lb. striker spring will go back into the gun, and that will be that. I do have a conversion barrel and a lot of 9mm to shoot, but I don't want to include another "modification" into the equation, that by itself may give bad results.

Now, the next step. If the 5.0lb striker spring weight proves safe, I'm thinking of purchasing a Pyramid Trigger System, so that I can adjust out a lot of the take up, as well as over travel.

Now I'm pretty sure I have qualified Glock armorers rolling their eyes.......:D I didn't take the armorer's "blood oath", I just don't want to bleed any of my own...:p

Any ideas? Suggestions? wan't to call me names?.... Feel free to do so.

FT:cool:
 
#11 ·
O.K., if anyone's reading this thread, besides those who've responded let me start with a disclaimer. I am not a Glock Armorer. Heed any advice of an armorer, over my experimenting for your own personal safety and that of others.

O.K. So here are the following changes I've made to a stock G23. Complete polish job, including re-polishing the Lone Wolf connector that came with a kit I bought from Lone Wolf. I installed the Lone Wolf Trigger stop. I did not install the 4lb. striker spring, heeding the advice of other's about the danger of light primer strikes, and that would basically render the weapon usless as a self-defense gun, being that it would possibly fail any time or multiple times due to light primer strikes and misfires, hang fires and whatever else might go wrong.

I installed a heavier (6lb.) trigger spring at the advice of Lone Wolf, having said it would give a smoother take up. I've read all of my own material, including The Complete Glock Reference by PTOOMA publishing. By the way, I would recommend this book to anyone who might be new to Glocks, and working on their own guns. It was recommended to me by folks (armorers) on this forum, and I think if you only buy one accessory for your Glock, this would be a good start. However, for the life of me, all of my research couldn't explain how a heavier trigger spring made for a lighter, smoother take-up, but it did, so I'll leave it to greater minds than mine to explain.

Here's where it got sticky. The standard glock striker spring is 5.5lbs. according to my research, and 4lbs. is too light, so I wanted to try a 5lb. striker spring, reducing striker spring weight by 0.5lbs. That raised some eyebrows, from some very qualified people. Safety, of course was the main concern again. The 5lb. striker spring came today (plus I wisely bought several more spring cups:p), just in case.

The take up and break were discernible, with the new striker spring, and the break felt good, but that is absolutely subjective, as I didn't have a trigger pull gauge to measure the weight of trigger pull with a 5.5lb spring. I'm thinking about 1/2lb. or a tad more. I have a Lyman digital trigger pull gauge on the way, so I'll know the exact weight.
But OSS, and others were concerned about safety, not actual trigger pull weight. I still heed their advice, but will save that for the next paragraph. I wanted to see if I could lower take-up, trigger break weight and STILL be safe.

So, I've got 150 rounds of Federal Ammo, (it seems the consensus is that they are harder than CCI or Win.) I've got a couple of hundred rounds of Win White Box FMJ, and a couple of hundred rounds of Hornady XTP. That's all I'm willing to shoot right now, because of difficulties in replacing it, but that's going to have to be the basis for my SPC. I know a few hundred data points would not satisfy any Quality Engineer, but for now that's what I'll have to deal with. One failure of any kind, and all bets are off. The 5.5lb. striker spring will go back into the gun, and that will be that. I do have a conversion barrel and a lot of 9mm to shoot, but I don't want to include another "modification" into the equation, that by itself may give bad results.

Now, the next step. If the 5.0lb striker spring weight proves safe, I'm thinking of purchasing a Pyramid Trigger System, so that I can adjust out a lot of the take up, as well as over travel.

Now I'm pretty sure I have qualified Glock armorers rolling their eyes.......:D I didn't take the armorer's "blood oath", I just don't want to bleed any of my own...:p

Any ideas? Suggestions? wan't to call me names?.... Feel free to do so.

FT:cool:


Yes, I do have something to say......I for one am very proud of your approach and willingness to make slow measured and deliberate steps. The way you are approaching this will provide many with valuable information. Well Done!
 
#13 · (Edited)
Scratch the Pyramid Trigger, it uses a 2lb., 4lb. striker spring to lighten trigger pull. Just what I don't want. Uses a skeletonized striker to compensate for ultra light striker springs. It does let you adjust for pre-travel and over-travel. I can already adjust for over travel. But, this kit's use outside of competition only is not for me. It goes right back to rendering the weapon useless for self defense. Also, 3lb. or 2lb. trigger breaks are way to light for safe use as a self-defense weapon, for me. My personal low limit is between 3.5lbs and 4lbs. And that is too low for many other's tastes. So, besides waiting on the Lyman digital trigger gauge and seeing exactly what the pull is with the modifications I've made so far, I've decided that this is as far as I'm going. I do know that the pull is much smoother, and the break much crisper and somewhat lower than stock, with no trigger creep. So my investment has been minimal. The results, surprisingly better than expected, and if tests at the range prove safe, I feel that I've got as good as I can go with a Glock trigger for a SD weapon.

Thanks to all who've helped/advised me through this. Now if I can just get my hands on a nice G19:D

FT:cool:
 
#14 · (Edited)
...I can already adjust for over travel...
How do you adjust for over-travel? I didn't find it in your earlier post.

If the method is a Ghost Rocket or other Ghost connector with a tab that was filed to fit your gun, then you're probably good to go. If you are using a trigger mechanism housing with a set screw to adjust over-travel (from Glocktriggers or Lone Wolf, perhaps others), please keep an eye on the thing.

I had one in a Gen3 G35 that I use in USPSA Open Division, and I was sailing along happily in a match when the trigger stopped resetting. At first I thought it was something wrong with the ammo, but it quickly went from annoying to 100% failure. The only way I could get it to reset was to cycle the slide, which I did through the end of the stage. I think I left 10 live rounds on the deck! Anyway, the only thing I could think of was the over-travel screw, so I hustled out to the car, dug out a stock trigger mechanism housing, put it in the gun and finished the match.

The only way this could have happened, I believe, is for the set screw to have rotated IN, and for the life of me I don't know how that could have happened. Further, I don't know if Loctite would secure the set screw in the plastic housing. With two unknowns in facing me with this part, I just stopped using it. You may have a better experience than I did, I just wanted to pass along what happened to mine.

Chris
 
#19 ·
FortTom - Absolutely the question(s) and potential answers thread about spring weight that i've been looking for. Please keep us up to date on how you are progressing and how the gun is performing on the range. I am curious as to where you found the 5lb striker spring - as i would like to try that in my own 23 if you feel it's worth the effort. Thank you for all of the information so far and whatever you provide in the future.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Redtornado,

First, all of my testing has been suspended due to a complication that is causing a delay in surgery on a herniated disc in my neck. I'm also trying something different. In the 19 I'm using a Glockworx trigger bar that has adjustments for both take-up and over travel. Wolf sells the 5lb. spring, but for some reason it doesn't show up on their website unless you google/bing glock 5lb. striker spring, then it takes you to the right place on the site. Since it takes about 2 - 5 minutes to install, I'd say it's worth the time, but not in and of itself. On the 23 I did a complete polish job also, and installed a Wolf trigger stop and 3.5lb. connector. I've put 8 or 9 boxes of ammo through that gun without a glitch. I picked up a lot of brass around myself, and every primer was hit well, with no light primer strikes. It has a very smooth take up and a crisp light break with very little over travel. Trigger pull was measured at approx. 4.5 lbs (averaged on a Lyman scale).

The 19 is a whole different beast and I don't want to reveal what I've done to it, until I get a chance to put at least a few hundred rounds through it. It's not part of a "proven" kit, but separate components I ordered from different vendors, therefore I don't want to take a chance on "advising" someone into doing something dangerous or stupid. It's pretty well thought out and shouldn't differ much from the 23, except to eliminate most take-up as well as over travel, as well as smooth things out even more. However, it looks like I'm not going to get surgery until mid October, and probably at least 3 or 4 weeks recovery after that, according to the Doc, so that project is on hold for now.

FT:cool:
 
#20 ·
I didn't read all posts, as I'm just seeing this, but in response to to the OP, you can also try a NY trigger spring with a negative connector. It is something me and my agency were considering for our G22s. Also, yes, as a Glock Armorer, I would also say stay away from nonglock aftermarket parts. Just never know how reliable they are. Without the Armorer slide cover plate, you can't check the connection percentage between the trigger bar and the firing pin. With a bad connection it could fail you at the wrong time.
 
#22 ·
FortTom,

I took to finding some parts myself. I ordered a reduced spring striker spring kit from wolf, along with some different connectors (zev, ghost, etc.) you're right in that swapping parts is fairly easy and quick - so testing different recipes is easy enough. I don't really have a problem with take-up and over travel, but for $20 it might well be worth it to get a adj. trigger bar and see how it is.

Sorry to hear about the disc - those are no joke and if you need surgery it must really be severe. I hope all goes well and you can get back to tinkering asap.
 
#23 ·
RedTornado, First thanks for the good thoughts about my neck.
Now the bad part. I hope your striker spring is no lighter than 5lbs. 5.5 is the stock weight, and anything lower than 5lb would be comp only. Besides with a good polishing job, you'd be surprised how much difference that 1/2 pound makes. Don't go lower unless it's a competition only gun. Remember too, that 3.5 lb. connectors won't make your trigger pull 3.5 lbs. They, by themselves might shave off approx. .5lbs, but only with a full competition kit are you going to get a 3.5lb pull. The trigger I'm using to eliminate pre-travel and over-travel is $150 from Glock Worx so $20 isn't going to get you there (where I'm trying to get). And the lowest I would go for the trigger spring is 5lbs. vs. 6lbs. for stock. That and a good polish job will really make a difference, it will ensure (but test and test somemore) you get a forcible enough striker hit so as to not get any light primer hits. If so, in about 500 rounds of testing, I'd say your safe for carry, if not, and you want more than a range fun gun or USPSA or some other class comp gun.
Don't change any angles on anything, and be careful about aftermarket parts changing angles. I'm neither an armorer or a gunsmith, but I had 35 +years of tinkering with guns in the military (my personal weapons) and since then with tutelage from armorers and gunsmiths. I also have an engineering degree and just want to make things work the way I want them too.
That's not a resume'. What I'm trying to say is the Glock engineers did things for a reason, and you need to be VERY cautious in changing them. You don't want your weapon to go full auto at the range, come unglued and hurt yourself and others.

OklahomaSafeShooting, Cohland, and a great many others on this site are true Glock armorer's and know their stuff. Ask questions before you try something, to avoid possible disaster. Or just PM one of the armorer's and ask questions. Either way you'll get a non-judgmental answer. Me, well I'm kind of a "crash test dummy" and sometimes take a path that make some of the armorer's here cringe, but I do everything slowly and deliberately, put a lot of thought into what I'm doing, and my first priority is safety of others, then safety for myself. Even then I can make some of the armorers cringe. But, I digress. Please ask these guys, if you have a question. I've had lots of help from them in my adventures, and I still have 2 hands and 10 fingers:D....most of all have fun and good luck. I'm not preaching to you, please don't think I am, but there are way too many people here willing to give you true Certifiable information to keep you from screwing up your gun and yourself. Again, have fun. Keep us posted. If I can help you with info on how I did mine, safely, just PM me here.

FT:cool:
 
#24 ·
FortTom - my bad, you did say glockworx, the $20 i was referring to was the lonewolf trigger stop.

anyway, yes, i've read about the "real" effect connectors have on reducing pull and i'm not sure what lb pull i'm going to end up with, but it will definitely be lighter than stock. i planned on staying clear of the 4lb spring - so the spring weights in the kit i purchased are 4.5lb and 5lb. along with a lighter safety spring, heavier trigger spring, zev v4 connector, smooth face trigger/no bump trigger bar and a good 25 cent trigger job, i'm hoping to end up with a lighter and smoother pull that still has a decent wall, breaks clean and is 97.5374832% reliable as this will never be a carry or duty gun.

i've received all of the necessary parts as of today, so i may change things out tonight and at least get to dry fire with a trip to the range planned for this weekend.
 
#27 ·
The trigger stop worked perfect for me in my 23, along with a 5lb. striker spring and a polish job. And 97.5374832% was exactly the same number I was going for....just kidding:p;)

The biggest change that I'll be making this time is the Glock Worx trigger, that allows eliminating as much pre-travel as you want as well as over travel, and a couple of other things I just won't mention until I test them, which looks like it's going to be a couple of months, at least. The thread kind of changed, but what I'm going for is a 1911 "style" trigger. Of course I know I can't get there with a Glock, but I'm trying to get as close as possible. If I can do that and get, say a 4.5lb. trigger, I'll be as happy as a pig in poop. And if it sets off 500 primers of mixed 9mm ammo then it'll go into the holster and ride on my side. If not, then it's back to the drawing board.

Have fun, but stay safe.

FT:cool:
 
#25 ·
I am kinda new to this forum but I have shots glocks in uspsa competition for about 2 years. I have tried many of the possible combinations of springs and connectors and will tell you from experience what works. Your 5 lb striker spring should set off any primer, I am running a 4.5 right now and have had no trouble setting off cci, winchester and federal. I have tried the vanek set up and it is nice but you can get the same results polishing and changing springs. I also tried the glock triggers same thing nice but you can do your own. As far as connectors go I have tried ghost, lwd, taran butler, the stock glock is the best so far, I have a Zev 4 comming so the jury is still out on that one. Get the trigger assy with the overtravel adjustment screw. As far as the trigger spring it is hit and miss. You want a heavier spring to lighten pull, I beleive 6lb. However you must make sure your trigger will reset. When you start changing the recoil and firing pin springs they all work in conjunction with one another and sometimes the trigger will not move far enough forward the activate the trigger safety. Well hope this helps I'm at work and gotta go. Have fun.
 
#30 ·
I'm back. A couple of things worth mentioning. A lightened safety plunger spring goes a long way in making the pull smoother. My current set up on a competition g34 is a 13lb recoil spring, a 4.5 lb. striker spring, lightened plunger spring, a 6lb trigger spring. stock 3.5 connector. everything is polished and my pull is a pretty smooth 2 3/4 pull. If I change to a 5.5 connector it goes up 1 lb. and you really feel the "wall" If I go to the stock plunger spring it may add another lb. So basically if you polish everything and stick with the 5lb striker spring, the stock plunger, and trigger spring, you should average a 4 to 4.5 pull.
Hello, chodgdon... Very good advice... Thanks for sharing your knowledge... We don't have a lot of competition shooters on Glock.pro but we are always happy to have a talented shooter sign up...
 
#26 ·
I'm back. A couple of things worth mentioning. A lightened safety plunger spring goes a long way in making the pull smoother. My current set up on a competition g34 is a 13lb recoil spring, a 4.5 lb. striker spring, lightened plunger spring, a 6lb trigger spring. stock 3.5 connector. everything is polished and my pull is a pretty smooth 2 3/4 pull. If I change to a 5.5 connector it goes up 1 lb. and you really feel the "wall" If I go to the stock plunger spring it may add another lb. So basically if you polish everything and stick with the 5lb striker spring, the stock plunger, and trigger spring, you should average a 4 to 4.5 pull.
 
#28 ·
Actually chodgdon, I'm trying to stay well safe on the side of carry, and not a comp set-up. I'm kind of trying to push the limit and still be in the safe "zone" of a carry/SD pistol. I also (in the 19 that I'm working on now) using a lightened titanium safety plunger). We'll see what happens there.

FT.:cool:
 
#32 ·
Thanks jb for the kind words. I have been shooting uspsa competition for about 20 years, just recently switched over to the glock platform. Started with the 1911, switced to glock for the simplicity and reliability. We push our guns to the extreme, and if they don't run you can't be competetive. A lot of our mods have carried over to the manufactures over the years. We all know that glock triggers suck from the factory and we are always looking for something better. There are tweeks that you can get away with and not compromise reliability, and would work for ccw.
 
#33 ·
You're certainly welcome, chodgdon...

I'm afraid that I have the advantage here as I recognized your screen name... I shoot with you most Friday nights and several weekends a month... I'll send you a PM...
 
#34 ·
I Bought a New Glock 30S several Months Back...after Shooting it I didn't like the Trigger pull so I ordered a Wolf Connector Spring Kit along with doing a 25 Cent Trigger Job. I reload my own ammo with everything going good until I bought some Winchester Primers which four or Five out a a 10 round Mag. wouldn't Fire. I checked the Primers & noticed light primer Strikes on the Misfire Ammo. I had some other 45 ammo that I loaded with Federal Primers with no problem with misfire. This Gun is my Carry gun so I have Installed the Factory Striker Spring back in the 30S which from what I've read should take Care of the problem. I was going to the Range to check out but Heavy Rain today so I will Have to wait. I hope this will take care of the Problem for I sure don't want to hear the CLICK of a misfire if I ever need the BANG. I dont know if anyone else has any other Ideas that will work for a Smooth trigger pull.
 
#35 ·
LBEE, I don'beleive you can get away with lighter striker springs in 45. The large primers need more oomph to set off. IIRC when I bought my kit fromm Vanek there was a disclammer that stated as such, he even said that you may have to up in weight to reliably set off those primers. So you can try the 4.5 connector, the extra power trigger spring, and the lightened plunger spring. You can also reshape the plunger to a more rounded profile, which will make a more smoother take up. There are vids on you tube showing this.
 
#36 ·
so i finally got around to installing all of my parts and adding another 5 cents to my previous 25 cent trigger job. i did not use the 4lb striker spring that came in the zev tech competition spring kit, i used their safety and trigger springs along with a wolff springs 4.5lb striker spring. also going in was a zev tech v4 race connector and a gen 3 trigger bar (no bump) with smooth faced trigger. dry firing the gun i was immediately happy with the reduction in pull, it was smooth, linear, still had a nice (but softer) wall and a clean break. tonight at the range i put 125 rounds (combined) of both 180gr federal and geco ammo through it and i did not have one FTF - the gun handled beautifully and the reduction in trigger pull made the gun feel...smooth? i'm not sure what word to use, but the feel was very much improved. groupings...i think things were tightened up - but i only have around 500 rounds through this gun and to be honest, i'm still "learning" the sights, which are stock.

if anyone is looking to reduce and smooth out their trigger pull, for the few dollars in parts...i don't think you can go wrong.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Glock specs and complex engineeing

this thread is so old i can get my 6th post and hide my 2-cents worth here and most will never know. Specs, specs, specs. The aftermarket folks that sell springs (of all kinds) list this for that and that for this so Wolfe says the standard weight of a firing pin spring is 5.5; lone wolf states it is 5.0, (but they aren't real current with their news up there in Idaho). Glock doesn't say, it just shows you a picture of its FP spring with tight coils at one end only. Glock *does use a 5.5 lb connector on stock guns, why is that, so maybe Wolfe knows something that Lone Wolf does not. hot guns with light triggers do not make could carry guns for most people. if you have ever fired unwilling at the range, you or your gun is too hot as far as firearms are concerned and GSSF doesn't even allow all those mods and add-ons (with exceptions), with even no polishing allowed, so you get use to a stock glock rig and get good with it. There is more bs out there on the net about glock pistols than 'good' info; *much more; and answers to questions that are completely fabricated from somebody's imagination. - Danger - Use at Your Own Risk ...
 
#39 · (Edited)
. . . Glock doesn't say, it just shows you a picture of its FP spring with tight coils at one end only. Glock does use a 5.5 lb connector on stock guns, why is that: So maybe Wolfe (sic)(Wolff) knows something that Lone Wolf does not?

Hot guns with light triggers do not make could (sic)('good') carry guns for most people. If you have ever fired unwilling (sic)( . . . ly) at the range, you or your gun is too hot as far as firearms are concerned and GSSF doesn't even allow all those mods and add-ons (with exceptions), with even no polishing allowed.

So you get use (sic)(used) to a stock Glock rig and get good with it. There is more BS out there on the net about Glock pistols than 'good' info-much more! As well as answers to questions that are completely fabricated from somebody's imagination. Danger! Use at your own risk! . . . .
In agreement with Wolff Gunsprings, and for as long as I can remember: Standard weight Glock STRIKER SPRINGS have been rated at 5.5 lb. Glock also measures their striker spring weights in NEWTONS-not in pounds.

Glock offers two optional striker springs: a 'red spring', and a 'blue spring'. Glock's red striker spring is rated at 28 newtons, or 6.295 lb (nominally 6.0#). Glock's blue striker spring is rated at 31 newtons, or 6.969 lb (nominally 7.0#). Glock's standard striker spring is rated at 25 newtons, or 5.620 lb (nominally 5.5#).

Now, after reading through this long, often ambiguous and much too antique post I am going to offer that EVERYONE who has responded so far has COMPLETELY MISSED a very important safety consideration (Ready?):

There is a synergy (i.e., a 'balancing act') among all of Glock's four principal operating springs. Anyone who screws around with one of these springs-beyond the safe operating levels set by both Glock GmbH/Inc., itself; or Wolff Gunsprings' warning notices-is inviting a major Glock pistol screwup to occur!

Here's the caveat: Experimentally mixing and matching Glock's four trigger mechanism springs can be tricky; (Read, 'dangerous') and, in order to avoid an entirely possible OBE (out-of-battery event), or an ND/NID/AD (negligent, non-intentional, or accidental discharge) you've got to (1) really know what you're doing; and (2) carefully test the pistol, at least, several times over before you begin to trust and/or actively use it.

Over the years I have learned to always obey the following precautions:

(1) If a shooter is NOT using really hot (usually European) military ammunition, or frequently firing his Glock pistol very rapidly, and/or has not significantly reduced the weight of his Glock's slide then do not use a 'blue striker spring'.

(2) Anytime a Glock's recoil spring is replaced then make sure to replace BOTH the striker and the trigger springs too. (Hint: The use of a heavier recoil spring almost always requires the use of a heavier 6 lb striker spring and trigger spring as well.)

(3) The synergy which exists among Glock's 3 (actually 4) trigger mechanism springs is such that: (A) A Glock's recoil spring applies FORWARD PRESSURE TO THE SLIDE. (B) The striker spring applies REARWARD (RELEASE) PRESSURE to BOTH the striker, and the slide; and (C) the striker spring and the trigger spring WORK TOGETHER, and their overall effect is cumulative. (D) Within the usual operating norms, the striker safety spring should safeguard the striker by amply protecting it from any excessive shock, impact, or vibratory pressure.

In other words the striker safety should stay down until it is deliberately lifted up by the cam on the trigger bar. (I never cease to be amazed that so many aftermarket Glock parts suppliers are asserting that reduced striker safety springs do not effect the overall safety of a Glock pistol, and are randomly offering these reduced power SS (striker safety) springs for sale.)

It is NOT really safe to use these reduced power SS springs, and if it were then the factory would certainly use them; however, and (I think) with good reason, Glock, GmbH/Inc. does not. Consequently, I would suggest that neither should you!

(4) NEVER attempt to reduce the front end trigger 'take-up' on any Glock pistol. Why? Because it's there for a very good reason that (in my experience) almost nobody ever bothers to think about:

This front end trigger take-up is, in reality, an undocumented additional Glock safety feature. It has to be there in order to prevent a Glock pistol from 'spontaneously firing'-and this comment also applies to pistol shooters with even the most experienced and highly disciplined of hands!

INEVITABLY, ANY REDUCED OR MINIMAL FRONT END TRIGGER TAKE-UP ON (ACTUALLY) ANY STRIKER-FIRED PISTOL CAN OFTEN EQUAL AN UNEXPECTED BANG! (Here, we are NOT talking about a Glock trigger's secondary mechanical reset position, OK!)

Finally, how do I set up my own EDC (competition) Glock pistols? Well I use all 3rd gen. (hardened steel) parts that have been meticulously polished to a high mirror shine. (Something that can no longer be done to any Glock pistol manufactured at, or after the end of Glock's outstanding, Tenifer-treated, third generation pistols.)

The ONLY PHYSICAL EDGE I have ever smoothed out during a Glock trigger job is the lower edge of the striker's safety button.

However, on the opposite side of a Glock's trigger bar cruciform I use a SETSCREW overtravel trigger stop that has been precisely adjusted and then epoxied firmly in place. Then, on the connector side of the bar's cruciform, I use a Ghost, Inc. 'C.A.T.' (Combative Application Trigger) connector with an adjustment tab that has been very carefully stoned to fit. (This helps to prevent a Glock's trigger bar from torquing during either recoil, or at the end of its stroke.)

From the center of the trigger face on all of my Glock pistols, the trigger will break at between 4.9 to 5.2 lb, and the break is 'as clean as glass'-Which is, in my own personal opinion, a much better accuracy advantage than the simple use of a lightweight trigger pull might ever be!

On a rifle? Yes! A lightweight trigger pull can be useful. But on a striker fired pistol? No! Mastering a CQB pistol is more about learning how to manipulate and control repeated recoil than it is about touching off an especially lightweight trigger. For the record: I can rapid-fire (i.e.: just as fast as the slide will cycle) all of my shot groups into a 9 inch circle at a distance of 15 to 18 yards, and I am able to do this all day long with almost boring regularity. However, to be fair, this is what firing 1,000 to 1,500 pistol rounds each month will do for ya, OK! :)

 
#40 ·
G17 gen 3 LE trade in/updated parts and surface polishing by myself/OEM trigger ~ Ghost connector

Always a flyer towards the end when the "happy" emotion takes over ... lol

 
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