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A Problem with Sight Picture with Glock Sights

132K views 69 replies 32 participants last post by  __jb 
#1 · (Edited)
There have been posts that touched on this topic previously, and I did a search but was unable to find the one I wanted with a particular illustration.

One of the reasons I replace the sights on new Glock pistols with aftermarket sights is that I cannot get a good sight picture with the standard Glock polymer fixed sights. Instead of seeing the full dot on the front sight, I only see the top part of it, when the sights are properly aligned.

Here is an illustration:

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I have two questions for those of you who read this post.

1) Do you see what I see with standard Glock sights? I am NOT saying that everyone sees this, but I can report that with my eyes, this is what Glock factory sights show me.

2) Have you ever done anything to modify the Glock sights to correct the sight picture?

A couple of weeks ago at a match, I overheard some very good (USPSA Master) shooters talking about getting ready for a GSSF match, and the problem with using standard Glock sights (even though the rules don't require it). One guy described the same sight picture problem that I experience, and mentioned that he always shot low with standard Glock sights. His solution for both problems was to shave the top of the Glock front sight, to bring the dot up and to bring the bullet impact up.

Has anyone else (a) ever heard of this, and (b) ever done it?

Chris
 
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#2 ·
Chris, I think some one sells a blank front sight for Glock pistols. You install the polymer sight, file to the height wher your POI and POA are good, measure the "new" height, and order the corresponding sights. I have replaced the front sights on several guys Glocks with fiber optic sights with great results. Usually the F.O. Hi Viz sights are .180. The factory height is .160 on G17's, G21 are .178? Remember your combat pistol training? Front sight, front sight, front sight! Sir! Yessir! Yes I do have the bottom sight pic. I just raise the front of the gun til I see the whole dot resting in the rear notch. I hope this helps. Dang it now I gotta go try my G17! Again! Later dave
 
#3 · (Edited)
Morning, Chris--

Yes, I remember seeing that on my polymer sights of the G17. That was before I switched it to steel sights.

I'm assuming the "do see" picture is when you're at full arm extension. For me, the only way I could get the "should see" sight picture was to bring in the gun closer to my eyes: half-extension or closer. In other words, I had to reduce the distance between the gun and my eyes by half or more. By getting the gun closer to the eye = bigger FOV through the rear sight = more front sight in view.

One question-- did you notice any difference in the sight picture between a longer sights like the G34, versus your G26?
 
#4 ·
Morning, Chris--

Yes, I remember seeing that on my polymer sights of the G17. That was before I switched it to steel sights.

I'm assuming the "do see" picture is when you're at full arm extension. For me, the only way I could get the "should see" sight picture was to bring in the gun closer to my eyes-- half-extension or closer. In other words, I had to reduce the distance between the gun and my eyes by half or more. By getting the gun closer to the eye, bigger FOV through the front sight = more front sight in view.

One question-- did you notice any difference in the sight picture between a longer sights like the G34, versus your G26?
Good morning!

The "Do see" picture is at full arm extension. Now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing this particular problem on a G34, probably because I swap the sights immediately. Good point, though.

Chris
 
#5 ·
Howdy again Chris, 10-8 Performance sights has the sight tool which is a plain black polymer blade. Then you file the blade to the height to get POA & POI. I have a couple Ruger Blackhawks that I have adjustable sights on the rear, I cranked the elevation DOWN, then I filed the front sight down til I got the POA & POI the same. This works for the handload (only) that is "your pet load". I can remember my old uncle's shooting they're old Colt peacemakers. Pop had a pistol given him by his long-time friends widow. It was a 7 1/2" Colt made in 1893. I can remember Pop filing down the front sight til "I got er jist rite"! When I grew up and learned about guns I realized "Pop" shot the same ammo for years. He didn't have to aim, and could shoot off-hand or "snap shot" shootin at will. I have my revolvers set so I can shoot to POA. I have to remember how to shoot every pistol and I can't remember that well, sometimes. Hope all this helps. dave
 
#6 ·
Dave,

Thanks, I didn't know that part was available from 10-8. They make some interesting stuff, I've bought several tools from them this year.

I'm not concerned about getting a different front sight, what interests me is finding out how many people see the same sight picture I do, and there are a number of us.

As for fixing it, my usual approach is to just replace the complete set of polymer sights with a set of steel sights (fixed rear, fiber optic front, like this:528-017 Sight/Warren Tactical/SetFix/Glock/ Blk Sevigny Carry Rear/Opt .215Tx.115W Front Detail Page) from Dawson, and put the Glock sights in a box. But overhearing a conversation about actually filing down the front sight to adjust the sight picture and the point of impact interested me.

The next Glock I buy will keep the polymer sights, at least until I've filed the front down an experimented with it a bit.

Chris
 
#16 ·
I'm not concerned about getting a different front sight, what interests me is finding out how many people see the same sight picture I do, and there are a number of us.
Brand new out-of-the-box G19 Gen 4 shows the identical sight picture you see. My solution is a set of Meprolight, TruGlo or Glock factory night sights ASAP.
 
#7 ·
I only see the front sight ... With that being established, since putting the fiber optics on, (green rear red front), I do see the dot !
 
#8 · (Edited)
This is a timely thread, I also see your "What I do see" sight picture. I thought it was only me.
I've wondered if my "low left" shooting has been compounded by not getting the front sight's dot lined up properly
even though to do so does not make "equal height". I recently blacked out (sharpie) my rear sight to lessen the
blurr I sometimes see from the white lines and white dot.
 
#11 ·
On glocks, when you "build a castle" with your sight blades (all blades level, all the way across), I see a 3/4 dot. Other sights aren't like this for me, but glocks are for some reason...and it works. Ever since i discovered that sight picture I shoot better
 
#17 ·
Chris, in your illustration of "what I see" and "what I should see", I see significant difference in
the top of the front sight post and the dot. What should I see? This is an interesting post, and
by the way, my eyes don't see like they have in the past.
 
#18 ·
Chris, in your illustration of "what I see" and "what I should see", I see significant difference in
the top of the front sight post and the dot..
When I get the top edge of the front sight aligned with top edge of the rear sight (equal height) and the front sight blade centered in the rear sight notch (equal light), what I see is the bottom half of the dot on the front sight being obscured, that's the best way for me to explain it. On other guns with similar dots on the front sight, I can see the entire dot.

Chris
 
#20 ·
Due to the grip angle of Glocks the slide is slightly angled up to me in my natural shooting position. Therefore the front site is the first thing I see when I draw and put the gun on target. I combat shoot mostly these days not target shooting so perfect perfection is not what I'm looking for. I speed shoot mostly and I shoot very tight groups but they're all about 2 to 3 inches high.
Pretty much any Glock I pick up
 
#21 ·
When I first started shooting Glocks I noticed the same thing with the sight picture, the lower third of the front dot was covered. I hated the Glock sight picture and the fact that they were plastic. After a month I changed to 3 dot sights and all was well. 10 years and 5 Glocks later and I can say I haven't looked at that factory sight picture since. I swap for Trijicons before shot 1.
 
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#22 ·
Jax,

Thanks for that reply! I was beginning to think that nobody else had tried shaving the front sight. I'm glad it worked for you, I am going to try it on a G21SF once I get a set of steel sights, in case it doesn't work.

Chris
 
#23 ·
I don't find the stock sights on Glocks real good either. I basically see what you see Chris. I have found though if I just bring the white dot on the front up just a hair, I am right on.
Would I like aftermarket sights? Sure but I find that the stock ones work to my liking.
 
#24 ·
Chris

I'll preface my response with a question. "Why do you feel your diagram of "What I should see" is correct?" I mean why do you feel that the "white dot" must be fully visible through the rear sight? (I guess that is two questions.) And to answer your original post question, yes my factory Glock sights on all of my Glocks (9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, and .357 SIG) give me your "What I do see" field of view.

I am probably a little weird in my thinking but to me the "white dot" is the "rough" alignment of the front sight in the "notch" of the rear sight and the setting the "top" of the front sight is the "finite" alignment with the top of the rear sight. Using this concept all (12) of my Glocks are dead on (POA = POI) at 15 yds and serves me well in all of the modern shooting sports (6) that I participate in with my Glock pistols. Basically the "white dot" on the Glock front sight is NOT to be used like a "fiber optic" front sight.

Hopefully this makes at least a little sense and this works for me. My opinion only.

Jake
 
#25 · (Edited)
Chris

I'll preface my response with a question. "Why do you feel your diagram of "What I should see" is correct?" I mean why do you feel that the "white dot" must be fully visible through the rear sight? (I guess that is two questions.) And to answer your original post question, yes my factory Glock sights on all of my Glocks (9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, and .357 SIG) give me your "What I do see" field of view.

I am probably a little weird in my thinking but to me the "white dot" is the "rough" alignment of the front sight in the "notch" of the rear sight and the setting the "top" of the front sight is the "finite" alignment with the top of the rear sight. Using this concept all (12) of my Glocks are dead on (POA = POI) at 15 yds and serves me well in all of the modern shooting sports (6) that I participate in with my Glock pistols. Basically the "white dot" on the Glock front sight is NOT to be used like a "fiber optic" front sight.

Hopefully this makes at least a little sense and this works for me. My opinion only.

Jake
Jake,

You've asked a perfectly reasonable question, it made me think about my answer.

I have two reasons for believing that my "what I should see" sight picture is correct:

1. This is what is depicted in Glock literature

2. This is the sight picture I get with other pistols I own: a Sig P239, a Remington 1911R1, Beretta 92FS, Ruger LC9®, HK P2000, and Colt XSE®, to name a few. While these other pistols have different rear sights, they all have the same white dot front sight, and I can see it clearly, so I thought it was a standard of sorts.

Glock literature shows this sight picture in two places that I can find:

The Instructions for Use manual (11/08 version), page 21:

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The Armorer's Manual, (©GLOCK, 2009), page 68:

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Oddly, it does not appear in the new Instructions for Use manual (01/13).

I agree with you that the alignment of the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight is the "finite" (good term) alignment, and using that as a guide my Glock sights are pretty much dead on as well, although with my vision it's hard to tell. I immediately swap Glock OEM sights for something else, usually fiber optic front and black rear, which helps me align the sights better.

My whole reason for complaining about my inability to see the whole front dot is that it confuses me. Your point that it is not to be used as a fiber optic front sight is a good one, I hope other members see these posts and understand your point of view.

Again, just for reference and to allow readers to see the whole context, this is the graphic that I used to begin this thread:

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Chris
 
#26 ·
jakeh and Chris--

It's interesting to see 2 different perspectives here, literally. What we're showing here is that each person has a different preference for what their sight picture should be, what Glock is documenting what their sight picture should be, and what many of us shooters are actually seeing. This seems to be the first time someone's pointed out the "Stock Glock Sight picture", at least I haven't found any threads out there that documents it the way Chris has.

No right or wrong here- one of the reasons why there are tons of sight options out there. Point taken about how the dot is a way to get the sights roughly aligned and then you algin the top edges for fine tuned, precise sight alignment.

FWIW-- check out a picture of my steel OEM front sight. I've gotten used to its quirky sight picture, and actually like it on my G17. If I ever figure out how to take pics like Chris I'll try to post a point of view pic.

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#27 ·
What I See

Chris,

This is very confusing to me, as I mentioned before.
The lower sight picture shows the dot further down
from the top of the post (see attached).:confused:

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#28 ·
Chris,

This is very confusing to me, as I mentioned before.
The lower sight picture shows the dot further down
from the top of the post (see attached).:confused:
Rowdie,

I agree, it is strange. My illustration is not that precise, it's supposed to be representative of the problem. I'm beginning to think that it has something to do with my eyes (they are old....and need lots of correction), although I have heard other people voice the same complaint. Let me say that I don't think this is a Glock problem necessarily, it's just the way my eyes see the Glock sights.

The odd thing is that I get a perfect sight picture with the other guns I mentioned. And then NWGlocker has to show us a photo of a Glock steel front sight that has the white dot trimmed at the top! I'm getting all confused. I have a couple of those sights on order, I think I'll install one on my G21SF and see what it looks like.

Chris
 
#29 ·
Chris

Thank you for the very detailed response. It is much appreciated!

In reference to your statement "My whole reason for complaining about my inability to see the whole front dot is that it confuses me." , I can relate to this but I believe this is one of those times that you just have to accept things as they are and quit concentrating on the white dot after it comes into view in the "notch" of the rear sight. Something along the lines of the question of "Why is there air?" (Bill Cosby from the real old days!) Forget it - not worth the trouble to find the answer. I have read in your other posts where you state you change your sights to a "fiber optic" front sight. Maybe this is creating a bias for you toward that "white dot". Dunno, just guessing.

Honestly I can't see any reason to change the sights on MY guns as I have never changed any of the factory sights on any of the guns I have owned (pistols, revolvers, rifles, or shotguns) except adding a Mid-Range Vernier Tang Sight for one of my 1885 HiWalls so that I could reach out to 600 +/- yards and touch something. I have tried all kinds of different sights on my friends pistols, which they said was the greatest thing since sliced bread was invented, and they just never did anything for me, so I stay with my factory sights. This only pertains to me and realize that everyone else has their own idea of what works better for them in the sight department. That's great! It's what makes the world go round and keeps the after market business in business and helps people shoot better.

Sorry I can't give you any detailed analysis of why you and I and others are seeing the "dot" in the location it is in but I figured some personal observations may help you in some small way.

Jake
 
#31 · (Edited)
There have been posts that touched on this topic previously, and I did a search but was unable to find the one I wanted with a particular illustration.

/ snip /

A couple of weeks ago at a match, I overheard some very good (USPSA Master) shooters talking about getting ready for a GSSF match, and the problem with using standard Glock sights (even though the rules don't require it). One guy described the same sight picture problem that I experience, and mentioned that he always shot low with standard Glock sights. His solution for both problems was to shave the top of the Glock front sight, to bring the dot up and to bring the bullet impact up.

Has anyone else (a) ever heard of this, and (b) ever done it?

Chris
It appears that people are trying to line up the top edge of the front sight with the top edge of the rear sight. Shouldn't you pay attention to centering the white dot irrespective of how the top of the sights line up like this? That should make filing unnecessary.

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Pardon me for my attempt at editing your image, but it was easier than trying to write a narrative to explain my question.

Duane
 
#33 ·
It appears that people are trying to line up the top edge of the front sight with the top edge of the rear sight. Shouldn't you pay attention to centering the white dot irrespective of how the top of the sights line up like this? That should make filing unnecessary.

View attachment 7262

Pardon me for my attempt at editing your image, but it was easier than trying to write a narrative to explain my question.

Duane
No...

Cohland's pictures are correct... Glock's are combat weapons... The dots are an approximation... The top of the sights are for accurate shooting...



Correct sight alignment is to line the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight... The dots are just to get you into the ball park...

The problem is that with the sights aligned correctly - as per Chris' images - the standard Glock dot is too low. Most of us correct that by installing a set of more accurate fiber optic or bight sights...
 
#32 ·
Every Glock I own has night sights. The exception is my G41 that has William's adjustable Fire Sights that I just installed today. I have shot my G41 and all of my Glocks with the OEM sights that came on them and found them to be less than desirable. I prefer 3 dot sights, so all of my Glocks have 3 dot sights and it is the first thing that gets replaced on a new Glock.
 
#35 ·
It's been so long since I've had to try and get a sight picture with Glock factory sights I probably wouldn't hit point of aim either. My last 4 Glocks all had Trijicons installed before the first shot. The only one that didn't was my very first Glock, and those were replaced after a few hundred rounds. To say I dislike the Glocks sights is an understatement.
 
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