Does a heavy Trigger Spring reduce trigger pull weight?
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  1. #1
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    Does a heavy Trigger Spring reduce trigger pull weight?

    After I finished the connector test detailed in another post, I took the gun apart, installed a Glock 4.5# connector, polished the trigger bar, connector, and firing pin safety, and installed a heavy trigger spring. I also replaced the sights with some decent carry sights.

    Then, just for the heck of it, I ran the trigger pull tests again. Remember, the changes were (a) polish, (b) Glock 4.5# connector, and (c) heavy trigger spring. I took another 20 trigger pull weight measurements.

    The word around the campfire has been that the heavy trigger spring reduces trigger pull, right?

    Not so much.

    The effect of these changes was to increase the trigger pull weight to an average of 5.816 pounds from 5.580 pounds, with a standard deviation of .220.

    Hmmm.

    My explanation for this unexpected result is that the heavy trigger spring, while it does help pull the trigger back, only does this after the shot has broken. Up to that point the heavy trigger spring is increasing friction by pulling the cruciform of the trigger bar back harder against the nose of the striker. You have to overcome that increased friction by pulling back harder on the trigger, not exactly what we are trying to do.

    While I polished the trigger bar including the cruciform, I did not touch the nose of the striker because I just normally avoid that area. So, absent any better explanation of what is going on, my conclusion is that putting in a heavy trigger spring might not reduce trigger pull weight. I'm using the term "might" because I only ran this test with one connector, although I did run it the full cycle of 20 times.

    In the meantime, I put the Glock OEM trigger spring back in the gun. With the 4.5# connector, OEM trigger spring, and some polishing, the results are now: trigger pull 5.539#, Std Dev .20. It looks like the polishing did have a very minor effect on the trigger pull weight, but the difference is so small that it could be chalked up to operator error.

    I'll bet that if anybody from Glock is reading any of this they are probably getting a pretty good laugh from it.

    If any of the readers of this post have a different understanding of how a heavy trigger spring could increase trigger pull weight, please reply and let me know. The only explanation I can come up with is the one I have offered here, and I may be missing something obvious. When I'm zeroed in on a problem I tend to do that.

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 09-18-2012 at 10:28 AM.
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    Does a heavy Trigger Spring reduce trigger pull weight?

    Is there such thing as a light trigger spring, lighter than OEM? That would likely reduce pull more, don't you think? I put a NY1 spring in mine (heavier than OEM I think) when I changed the connector. I'm going back to OEM spring, I think.

    Hays

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    Quote Originally Posted by haysmclean View Post
    Is there such thing as a light trigger spring, lighter than OEM? That would likely reduce pull more, don't you think? I put a NY1 spring in mine (heavier than OEM I think) when I changed the connector. I'm going back to OEM spring, I think.

    Hays
    I have never seen a lighter trigger spring for Glocks. I think that the OEM spring puts just the right balance of friction into the trigger and assists the pull after the break just enough to work well.

    Chris
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    To get the reduced trigger pull weight, I believe one needs to use a stiffer trigger spring and a lighter striker spring together with the lower pull weight connector.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdF702 View Post
    To get the reduced trigger pull weight, I believe one needs to use a stiffer trigger spring and a lighter striker spring together with the lower pull weight connector.
    I agree regarding the connector and the lighter striker spring, but I am not sure about the trigger spring at all. Not saying you are wrong, just that I'm not sure about the trigger spring.

    What I am sure about is that none of the companies selling "4.5#" or "3.5#" connectors bother themselves with the other factors in trigger pull that you have listed. If you read the packaging that comes with the connectors, or what they say on their websites, they are claiming that the connector alone will deliver a 3.5# trigger pull. And as some of us know from experience, that is not the case.

    Chris
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    When I put a new 3.5 lb connector in my g23, I put a NY1 trigger spring in at the same time. The NY1, I believe, is commonly known to be a heavier trigger spring than Glock standard factory .. I believe it's 8 lbs, not sure. Tonight I took out the NY1 and replaced it with the original OEM trigger spring, while still keeping the 3.5 lb connector.

    There's no question in my mind that the change to the lighter trigger spring produced a lighter trigger pull when dry firing. I don't have a measurement device, just going on feel.

    Taking it to the range tomorrow...

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    Chris, am I correct in you are working with a Gen 4?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OklahomaSafeShooting View Post
    Chris, am I correct in you are working with a Gen 4?
    No, the G21SF is Gen3. Haven't got the parts I want to run the tests with Gen4 yet. Will reply to Hays' message though.

    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by haysmclean View Post
    When I put a new 3.5 lb connector in my g23, I put a NY1 trigger spring in at the same time. The NY1, I believe, is commonly known to be a heavier trigger spring than Glock standard factory .. I believe it's 8 lbs, not sure. Tonight I took out the NY1 and replaced it with the original OEM trigger spring, while still keeping the 3.5 lb connector.

    There's no question in my mind that the change to the lighter trigger spring produced a lighter trigger pull when dry firing. I don't have a measurement device, just going on feel.

    Taking it to the range tomorrow...
    The NY Trigger springs were developed to replicate the feel of a double-action revolver for the NYPD, as legend has it. They were intended to generate a very heavy pull, and have a design that's quite different from the single springs that come in the guns now. Here is what the Glock Armorer's Manual says in the Trigger Pull Weight Chart:

    With a standard connector the standard trigger spring is rated "˜5.5 lbs", the NY1 (olive color) is rated "˜9 lbs" and the NY1 (orange) is rated "˜11 lbs".

    With a + connector the standard trigger spring is rated "˜8 lbs".

    With a - connector the standard trigger spring is rated "˜4.5 lbs", the NY1 (olive color) is rated "˜7.5 lbs".

    I have not looked closely at the NY trigger springs to see how they might affect trigger pull differently from the standard springs. I believe that the NY springs are compressed but the standards are stretched. Since you have one of the NY springs, can you figure out how it is supposed to work?

    Chris
    Last edited by cohland; 09-21-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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    Chris, I will say that on many I have had to "stone" the cruciform to square it and to undercut it at 40 degrees. I leave a "nose" of 0.025" and polish the striker face and square it as well if necessary. Most of the Gen 3 and 4's that I am seeing are actually ripple faced on the striker facing. I know the Gen 2's had some of this in earlier models and I just chaulked it up to CNC marks. As far as what you have done I would ask you to go ahead and put in a lighter striker spring as well as a lighter striker plunger safety spring. Just wondering what difference there would be then.
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